Love and excrement

I finally finished The Interpreters, a novel written by Nobel laureate Wole Soyinka. He won the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1986. Although his plays were primarily the reason why he won the Nobel Prize, this novel still offers some insight to his genius.

How the novel is written closely parallels that of Honey and Clover‘s explication. Five friends who have obtained education from abroad have come back to Nigeria after the declaration of independence to interpret, interact, and reflect upon their lives. They are a journalist, a lecturer, a worker in the Foreign office, a sculptor, and a painter. From this alone, it already sounds like Honey and Clover: five friends are in an art college and they ponder as well as seek meaning in their lives as they approach graduation, and a subsequent separation from one another.

Replace the faces with faces of black people, and you shall have The Interpreters.

Unlike Honey and Clover’s fluidity, however, the novel is a complex one. It can rival Faulkner’s Sound and the Fury in terms of technical complexity because both do not demarcate the passage of time in a linear manner. What do I mean? Time merely jumps from one place to another without a warning, and this presents a difficulty to the reader: how can one understand the text when one already has difficulty understanding the setting?

This is also not solely the novel’s problem: having looked at the novel’s background, it was written at the end of post-colonial Nigeria: it was written at the advent of Nigeria’s independence, and thus this makes the novel’s nature rooted in time. In addition, the bespattering of Nigerian vernacular made the already difficult contextualization a little bit more difficult.

I do not, however, feign total understanding or comprehension. In fact, despite my waddling in the murky water of the novel, I hurried to finish my waddling as fast as possible. There were two reasons: first, there were more relevant material to read, like my textbooks in microbiology and biochemistry; and second, I felt that if I did not finish the novel within this month, I would not be able to finish the novel ever. The experience of reading the novel would be to reach the finish line of a race bruised and battered, but still reach it nonetheless.

Despite these difficulties plaguing the reader of the novel, there are still certain perks that remain. I would even argue that the novel is carried by these perks: I believe that the novel can be enjoyed with these certain scenes. The first would be Sagoe’s (journalist) philosophy of voidancy. His is the philosophy that everything is shit, and this cynicism is reflected not only through his character, but throughout the novel’s milieu. It is, however, tackled quite ingeniously: he ponders about the excrement floating in the streets of Lagos as representative of their lives. The second would be Egbo’s (customs worker) sexual awakening. He discovered it at the hands of a very beautiful courtesan, but seemingly raises the same question when he sleeps with a student of his friend, and consequently impregnates her: who do I love now?

In the end, he is immersed in an indecision: it is not akin to Itou Makoto’s actions, however. He does not avoid all forms of decision because it is uncomfortable for him; Egbo cannot decide because he places value to the two women in his lives. Promiscuity has been a question plaguing society for a very long time, and it remains, whether in the time of Caligula, Egbo’s time, or the time of today.

Itou Makoto

I will address the first sub-story I found of relevance in the novel with the emergence of series like Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, School Days, and Shigurui. These stories possess an underlying assumption that everything is shit in their world. All series mentioned are cynical portrayals of people and of life in general.

I often laughed whenever Sagoe talked and discussed his ‘Book of Enlightenment,’ because I interpreted from his words that it was sheer irony that he attained the most enlightenment when he expurgated his excrement. With the rustle of either blade grass or soft paper tissue on one’s buttocks, he is at peace: with the expurgation of what he dislikes, he feels free.

People often derive enjoyment from excrement. The world cheered when Itou Makoto died: ashes to ashes, shit to shit. It is sad, but I guess Sagoe reflected one of the world’s modern predicaments: no longer does one care for the other human being. Everything is bogged down by suspicion and cynicism, and I guess this is the reason why series as mentioned above have kept on appearing and reappearing. This may also be the reason why series like Ergo Proxy occur. Polemics about the gravity of excrement that their world is bogged down in also bogged down the series. A lot did not like the series, because debates about what was bad or worse were often senseless: what was bad was bad, and there was no need for debate. This is sad, because despite the evils that pervade our society, there remains to be exemplary people and exemplary values. It is not that good has been eradicated, but that most of us have chosen to avoid seeing that good: we simply choose to see bad, and only that. This is what I primarily liked about Honey and Clover: its cast had quirks and were also imperfect, but deep down they were really kind and excellent people. They were human, but they were not cynics, and that was really among the perks of the show.

The second sub-story is a theme that can often be seen in any romance series: whether implied or explicit, a primary character posits a question: who do I really love? Despite the struggles being simpler, the question remains fundamentally similar. People were pissed at Rin (of Shuffle) because he was indecisive until the latter part of the series. Frankly, I already understood what he felt in the series, because it truly is difficult to end up with a choice, especially one that is between a rock and a hard place.

Egbo, at the end of the novel, pondered as the beautiful courtesan approached him with tears in her eyes:

Egbo watched her while she walked towards him, eyes ocean-clams with her peculiar sadness . . . like a choice of a man drowning he was saying . . . only like a choice of drowning.

In real life, in harem anime or in masterful literature, the choice of loving between two equally captivating people is a task that is difficult. I guess with the books I have read, the stigma with harem leads do not really affect me. In fact, it is this stigma that makes them human.

25 Responses to “Love and excrement”

  1. Extrange Says:

    Loving 2 girls is always a complex subject. It requires to quantify something you can\’t really measure, which is the \”love\” you have for each girl.

    Thank god I were never in a situation like that…..I wonder if this happens a lot with twins….

  2. DrmChsr0 Says:

    How can you love a gail if you can’t love her poop?

    (Yes I went there.)

  3. meganeshounen Says:

    When you’re faced with a very very important choice between the daughter of the Demon King and the daughter of the God King (whom you both met as a kid), a childhood friend who has been literally taking care of you since you were young, and all the arbitrary available girls in the vicinity (who are hiding their true feelings about you, naturally)… it’s not that easy to make a choice, and in a short span of time too.

    Unless you’re choosing someone from the God race, it’s not recommended to go for a harem approach, as one certain bastard/jerk/hetare became AN HERO just to show us the bad effects.

    Anyway, all game lingo aside, it’s really tough to choose amongst the people who love you and you love back. Then again, it all boils down to the times you’ve spent with them, the things you’ve done together, the feeling that you get when you’re around them, etc. etc. … until you finally find “that one”.

    Then again, there are people who spend the greater portion of their lives just to find “that one” and still fail miserably…

    DISCLAIMER: Poster has no whatsoever lovelife so please take his words with a handful of salt and some antiacid. Thank you.

  4. Michael Says:


    I would say, yes, it is indeed a difficult situation. For one, if you love them both equally … then it is going to be hell for you.


    PLEASE … Pray the rosary.


    [1] Anyway, all game lingo aside, it’s really tough to choose amongst the people who love you and you love back. Then again, it all boils down to the times you’ve spent with them, the things you’ve done together, the feeling that you get when you’re around them, etc. etc. … until you finally find “that one”

    Most people do not believe in “that one.” Relationships need a lof of development, and there would almost always be no ideal girl or boy – they need work. It is still a really difficult choice.

    [2] Then again, there are people who spend the greater portion of their lives just to find “that one” and still fail miserably…


    [3] DISCLAIMER: […]


  5. Ryan A Says:

    There’s usually always a third card to draw. I don’t doubt that a person can love two others, but the momentum of the relationship is usually rocky. I’d like to see a character in this situation take one of those third options, say, never committing to either party and keep it that way. Seems like the impossible, but it isn’t less loving.

    For some reason I remember the story Touch, where it was twin brothers and a childhood friend. She probably loved them equally and wouldn’t have wanted to choose. If the one brother wasn’t eliminated she may have taken the third option; surrender to neither. Usually, in reality, we see the surrendering to both, thus viciously tense love triangles, or affairs.

    One of the most amazing parts of Honey and Clover was the friendship of Rika, Harada, and Hanamoto (I hope the names are right). It wasn’t a really a love triangle, but it was a tender friendship, I’m sure they all loved each other, but it wasn’t a matter of competing in the end. I wish we saw more of this in media.

    It’s not easy to create an intriguing experience on a bond of two, independent of competition (5cm per Second comes to mind), but it is more difficult to create with 3 or more. Eventually, those groups tend to fall into ruins after the confessions are said and done. So many stories come to mind where a group of 3 breaks and it drives the story, and they aren’t harems or even triangles, but why use the friction to drive a story? can it be just as good without it? I’d like to see the solution to the question, and it probably lies somewhere in the slice-of-life genre.

    and that’s why I like reading here, a nice blend of material for pondering tend to surface… 🙂

  6. Michael Says:


    I did not think of that third option. But if one really thought of it, that would hurt the most for all of the people involved. Not only does the apex suffer by not choosing; its sides also suffer from the indecision. If the apex chose one of the sides, only one side would suffer: the apex and the chosen one would tend to live happily. I would even argue that the choice you have introduced would be the most painful one: it is the most selfless for the apex involved, and it is also the most harrowing.

    Frankly, yes, the surrendering is a very difficult thing, and that is why friendships are dissolved in love triangles because the apex fails to decide. I love that allusion to the relationship of the three, and you know what, it hit a raw nerve in me. I feel I am like Hanamoto in the relationshipt that I have now: I do not try to steal the girl, but I also care for her just as I care for my guy friend. I am unsure if we ‘love’ one another, but yes, it was not about competing.

    Those were among the endearing relationships of Honey and Clover. Let us not forget the dynamic among Rika, Mayama, and Yamada. It was a friendship that was fragile and tense, yet I adore Mayama’s willpower as well as Yamada’s attempts and Rika’s obstinateness. For Yamada, it was a love that would never have materialized, and yet she still persisted. I don’t even think there was competition involved: for Mayama there wasn’t, and for Rika, there wasn’t also. But it was a tense relationship, an uncommon love triangle, and a good part of the masterpiece that is H&C.

    Thanks. 😀

  7. korosora Says:

    “Replace the faces with faces of black people, and you shall have The Interpreters.”
    That scared the shit out of me! I’m serious.

  8. Michael Says:

    Well, that was a rough representation. Granted, that statement of mine was jarring, but I guess that was the closest I had to put the novel into the context of Honey and Clover. They were five friends who were out to discover the world, just like the five people in Honey and Clover, and in their own manner resolve their own differences as well.

    The series is quite majestic; the book I leave for you to discover. 😀

  9. Kljigen Says:

    A lot did not like the series, because debates about what was bad or worse were often senseless: what was bad was bad, and there was no need for debate. This is sad, because despite the evils that pervade our society, there remains to be exemplary people and exemplary values.

    Because majority of the society find that it is bad, unacceptable, its bad. That is the rule of the society. If 2/5 of the anime community didn’t like the show, they spread and influence the people around them, creating more people who dislike the show. As the group of people turns into the majority, they label the show as “bad”. Since it is the majority who labeled it, the people who enjoyed it, the minority, couldn’t counter it as it is already what most people thinks.

    Lets take another example. Killing is wrong and unacceptable in the society. Why? Reason would be that majority of the society thinks that it is “wrong” and “bad” and “unacceptable” to kill someone. But look at School Days. You wanted Makoto to die so badly. Doesn’t that make you unacceptable in the society? One would probably say that anime and real life is different. However, the fact that you hate someone to the point of wanting them dead does not change.

    So now lets assume that the people who find that killing are “bad and “wrong” are the minority of the society. Will killing be accepted? Yes. That is because now the majority find that it is “acceptable” or even “good” to kill. If the majority of the anime community finds Ergo Proxy “good”, wouldn’t it be good despite the fact that there are minority who hates it?

    In my opinion, there is no “good” or “bad”, “right” or “wrong” in this world. It was create only to denied the minority. Even if the one that is normal is the minority and the abnormal ones are the majority, the society would still label the minority as “abnormal”. In the end, it all boils down to what and how a single person think about the issue and not generalize and follow the majority of the society. Thinking that killing a person is wrong even without thinking about the reason behind it is following the majority. There is no good and bad in this world, only actions that are taken and the reason behind it.

  10. korosora Says:

    Again, the trite love triangles and harems are trite for a reason. It’s the same dynamic, same uninteresting events, same token tsunderes and yanderes and megane bishoujos and drug addicts and lolis and rei clones and ghost girls and yaoi alternative trap with some kinda mystical attraction to a loser male lead. (Although if it was all of those in the same one, it’d be epic.) And I hate boring stereotypes.

    “In fact, it is this stigma that makes them human.”
    Just because it’s human, doesn’t make it entertaining. In fact in many cases, the closer to real life entertainment is, the less entertaining it is. I find much entertainment to be facets of escapism. The “human” constraints bring much of the fantasy to be chained down by the reality. Not to say the characters shouldn’t be human, but they should go BEYOND their humanity to show what aspect of humanity we are looking for in the character OR be so RAW in human-likeness that we can connect without difficulty.

    Ergo Proxy was an enjoyable series, although in my opinion Lil wasn’t even interesting. She was just a flat character. Namely, a bitch. She was a hawt goth girl though. :3

    School Days was terrible in my opinion. The frustratingly douche of a male lead did everything that he shouldn’t have, predictably and frustratingly so. The female characters were simple and had no real deph other than the knives they carried.

    To wrap it up, it depends on the characters, Mike. If they are interesting, likable, or detestable in a way I love to detest, yes, love triangles and harems can be interesting. HOWEVER, this is rarely shown by the hackneyed mold that is a triangle or harem. Thus, I conclude, with this statement:

    Wait, what the fuck is this post about mike? It started from The Interpreters to enjoying anime to harems. I don’t even remember what I typed at the beginning of this comment. Damn you, cursed choo-choo of thought!

  11. Michael Says:


    Before I begin, I think I have to apologize because I will not be able to reply to your beautiful indictment as well as I believed I could. I will try, however.

    What you are talking about, I think, is primarily sociology. If I remember correctly, the point you are arguing reflects the labeling theory. I am not an expert of sociology; I have had only the most basic course. It is hard to say anything regarding the matter especially when the consensus speak of a given anime series as good. I have struggled defending my point in the past because I truly believed that Haruhi Suzumiya was too overhyped. It had technical prowess, but other than that the plot was wanting and Haruhi was not much of a likable heroine as well.

    With regards to School Days and your point thereafter, I must say that it is a good and valid argument that I have admittedly not thought about in the creation of this post. This indictment over the total and complete bifurcation of what is good and bad is valid: I have nothing more to say other than it was a mistake on my part.

    Yes, if society condoned killing, it would be accepted by everyone. I would argue that we will live in anarchism, but still, everyone will accept it. What will be bad, then? I see your point.

    ‘In my opinion, there is no “good” or “bad”, “right” or “wrong” in this world. […] In the end, it all boils down to what and how a single person thinks about the issue and not generalize and follow the majority of the society.’ […] There is no good and bad in this world, only actions that are taken and the reason behind it.’

    There is good and bad, and they exist, but purely in the theological or philosophical sense. In the real world, and in the complexes of society, bad and good are merely shades of gray.

    I must say I am reminded of a documentary entitled Bus 174. Shallowly, we are first made to believe that the hijacking was done because the hijacker was evil. But then when we are made to face the circumstances that have made him done that, we realize that he was a victim too.

    I must say that was a great point you’ve made. I expect for your riposte to my reply. 🙂


    Another one of those unexpected juggernauts have come and voiced their thoughts. I am grateful.

    1] Just because it’s human, doesn’t make it entertaining. In fact in many cases, the closer to real life entertainment is, the less entertaining it is.

    I maintain a balance of entertainment and gleaning lessons from the media I watch, read, or listen to. This is all a matter of opinion. Frankly, the humanity of some series, like Honey and Clover, makes it interesting, entertaining, and learned as well.

    2] I find much entertainment to be facets of escapism. The “human” constraints bring much of the fantasy to be chained down by the reality. Not to say the characters shouldn’t be human, but they should go BEYOND their humanity to show what aspect of humanity we are looking for in the character OR be so RAW in human-likeness that we can connect without difficulty.

    But that would make them one-dimensional characters? If one merely observed the rawness of a character or their antithesis of quotidian humanity, it would defamiliarize us with them! If one only showed aspects of humanity, then it would not be humanity but only a representation of it.

    3] Ergo Proxy was enjoyable until it featured Mickey Mouse. Then I realized I was being fooled into watching bilge. I would agree, Lil is a HOT CHICK, though. mmm

    4] Some people are like that. I always hoped he did something right, but I guess some people ARE like that. The female characters were indecisive doormats, but some people are also like that. The fact that we hate such occurrences is the proof that that there exists people like that in our lives.

    5] This post is about the juxtaposition of anime with the recent novel I read. But because it would make the title too long and too boring I decided to write about the parallels that it had with recent anime, and hopefully implicity show that there’s not really too much of a difference between anime and literature. I am unsure if I had pulled it off, but … there you go. 😀

  12. Kljigen Says:

    There is no good or bad in this world, only majority and minority. And thing that is so called “bad” can be “good” if you see it in a different light. But since “bad”=”good”, isn’t there no such thing as good or bad since they are the same?

    I’m glad that you see my point about the ‘action’ and ‘reason’ part. One must always look at the ‘reason’ before you judge their ‘action’. But, who are you to judge? You can never give a proper judgment if you do not fully understand the reason since there will always be parts that never made it to the public. The one who can judge is none other than the person who committed the ‘action’. However, would the society accept his judgment? No. They would just take it as an excuse and brand him is “bad”. But is it the society’s role to judge?

    If we trace back to the very basic thing that all living thing knows, that is instinct. The instinct to live, to protect yourself. But as human has much higher intelligence than all other living things, we started to reason with the ‘instinct’. Our intelligence overpowered instinct, and we started to reason every ‘action’ with intelligence. If you killed a man, our intelligence says that you are a killer. Since the majority finds that killers, the minority, are different and abnormal, they are “wrong”,”bad”, and are exterminated. But if we think about it, he may killed the man for a “reason”. The majority overlook the “reason”, defending their argument with ‘killing is not right’. Even if the reason is an invalid one, where the “reason” is considered “bad”, if we look at it in a different point of view, that so called “killing” can be acceptable.

    If you felt threaten, you would run. If you are cornered, you would fight. If you fight, you would kill. This is instinct, the very basic thing that enables us to live till now. If we see the killer as threaten, cornered, doesn’t that make his killing “acceptable”? Since it is the work of instinct, it must be acceptable.

    This few examples clearly shows that there is no right or wrong, good or bad in this world. (Unless you mean something like a maths question, where there would always be correct answers.) “Good” and “bad” is just something that the society create to defend their stand that the minority is “bad”. Because the minority is different, they are “abnormal” and shunned from the society.

    To warp it up, there is no good and bad in this world, and who are you to judge?

  13. Michael Says:

    Yours is an important yet still unresolved thesis: from your statement, you believe that society molds what is ‘good’ and what is ‘bad,’ and yet, in reality, there is really nothing ‘good’ or ‘bad.’ I think I agree with this. If someone was truly ‘good’ or ‘bad,’ then we can separate the world between heaven or hell, right?

    I guess my reply to this is that society judges upon men’s actions to preserve order. Were it not for this, there will be anarchism, and anarchism is something both retrogressive and abhorrent as what history attests. Society judges because it needs to preserve order and sanity. If it did not, no humans would remain in this world anymore.

    This intelligence allows us to dominate and to control ourselves, which also allows us to dominate over the rest of animal life. The killer may have his reasons, but if left to do his bidding (and if everyone was), life on Earth will probably cease to exist. Do you see this point?

    Religion, I believe, was proposed by society to impose order and sanity, and that is why we can find both right and wrong. The same can be said of philosophy. Descartes discussed that, even – maths are underneath the realm of cognition (if I interpreted him correctly) so that is why there is something clear-cut whenever we seek out an answer of it. If thinking is involved, there is NOTHING that is clear-cut. Everything is a shade of gray.

    I need to judge because there will be no order otherwise, and it is something I have to face that life on Earth will end if I did not. It may be an incomplete, biased judgment, but we have to make these if we are to preserve life.

  14. usagijen Says:

    Choosing between two girls (or guys for that matter) in your life is inarguably a difficult task, but I believe this happens to people because they allow themselves to fall for these kinds of situations. One might argue that fate is probably what brought the two women in his life, but the fact that he opened up his heart to both women inevitably shows that he himself has something to do with the struggles he’s facing.

    Yes, it’s the kind of drama we usually see in movies, animes, etc, and the kind which some people love to watch because of the tension of emotions involved in it. In real life however, people ought to be wiser, and not let emotions take control of their lives, or else they’ll find themselves struggling with promiscuity, which will end up hurting all the parties involved.

    If possible, don’t do anything that will make you bogged down to make a choice between two (or more) women sooner or later. If you’re lucky enough to be in the situation as the harem lead guys, choosing might prove to be difficult because the girls just magically appear at your doorstep, but once you get to know the girls well enough (and know yourself as well, and what you really want), I believe you’ll be able to pinpoint that one person for you. Don’t allow yourself to love someone truly, madly, and deeply, without thinking of wanting to commit to that relationship (like you’ve ascertained that the person is THE one). That commitment will serve as the guard of your heart, so that you won’t turn to other women anymore.

    Anyways, it’s really complicated… but guarding your heart and committing (once you find the person you really love) is the key to all this, IMO.

  15. Michael Says:


    I would agree. I could not add more because of my general approbation of your comment, but simple choice will make a very big difference. If one knows the girls (or guys) all that well, it may be difficult to have a final choice, but in reality, ascertaining is not also all that difficult.

    Guard your heart and choose wisely. That is correct.


  16. Ryan A Says:

    One intense, and broad, discussion here ^_^

    On good vs evil:
    If one loved person, to each person, in a population of humans was killed, the determination of good vs bad would definitely be a majority based on how it made the people left alive feel. This sort of thing isn’t singularly human though, but we can’t count out that there may be some species in which the opposite is true, or one where a balance exists, neither good nor bad. Therefore these things are not reality only partly of instinct, and highly mixed with learned mechanisms (the way we feel, we pass on to our own).

    Let’s suppose the opposite, a positive and negative do exist in the universe (which is true), does our conception of bad=negative become true? I think not, because what humans define as good vs bad is part of life, which I’ll designate as positive=good; some may contest. Now it may be a serious predisposition of many to believe that death is the negative=bad, but for a second let’s admit that it really isn’t the bad, but the balance, then what classifies as the bad? Could we, as living beings, even perceive the bad, or are the figments we’ve created really it? There is no definite answer, and there may not be, because we cannot “see” all of reality with our bodies (I can’t see IR, or UV for instance; neither can anyone else), but I feel that if there is “evil” in this universe it isn’t something that we can define so well.

    On escaping:
    Real life is alright, but it can be quite sickening. Escapist media should have elements of real things abound (imagine sci-fi with only aliens, no humans), yet it flows more like a concise dream. We need that realistic touch to identify with (as stated). Yet, there is a fuzzy line where we (not me, but amazing writers/conceptualists) can mix realistic things with the unreal and it becomes an amazing place to escape; I think of the Crest of the Stars world.

    Still, media that doesn’t have irregularities can still be escapist, and although I don’t really think of something like H+C that way I could understand it. I only say that because H+C is sorta realistic and I didn’t feel like I was “escaping” during the experience. These things said, I don’t find escape in harems, not really in KyoAni via Key stuff either (but I kind of wished the world of AIR was real).

    There is one aspect of anime where I can find escape, and that is in the fact that usually the setting is sometime/where in Japan. Now, I don’t live in Japan, especially in a nice seaside town with a lovely population where everyone knows what seifuku are, so my base anime escape is simply Japan! After that the secondary escapes come and go, but the taste of Japan always lingers, in a good way.

    Yes, I’ve lost my marbles… no I don’t need to borrow any 🙂

  17. Michael Says:

    And that is what I love, Ryan. A discussion of critiques and ripostes, but nothing that is destructive or elitist. 🙂

    I believe you are repeating what Kljigen pointed out in his previous post: that good and evil are mainly implements of society; that in the end, no one can really judge. I added to his discussion that yes, I believed it was a social construct primarily to place order in society. Finally, I agree that we can’t define those ideas especially, because they are complex and simply giving definitions to them obscures them – or offers a picture that is incomplete.

    As for escaping, yes, I would agree that you cannot disjoint reality from even this escape, because it would be a nightmare and not a dream to be unfamiliar with everything in your dream world. To have a wonderful dream world, I would say that the mix between the familiar and unfamiliar has to be perfect. If it was too unfamiliar it brings alienation, and if it was too familiar it brings pain. 🙂

    Media that may not have irregularities may be escapist because there remains to be something unfamiliar that makes the experience colorful.

    As for the experience of being rooted in Japan, I don’t really think of that as my escape, but merely just an abstraction, a moving away from the real world so I can pursue my dreams, temporary they may last.

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