12 Days of Christmas: a confederacy of dunces?

Saturnine linked to an article of his trying to promote community among the anime bloggers on IRC. I do not read his blog, reasons stemming from his demeanor on IRC to his general treatment of other anime bloggers. I clicked that specific post of his, however, and I was filled with horror.

I do not write troll posts: I deem myself somewhat more intelligent than that, but this occurrence simply filled me with bile and with disgust. I felt that it was like Adolf Hitler promoting community within anime blogging. One may ask: why do I compare saturnine with Adolf Hitler? His demeanor in that post of his was highly contrary to any altruistic or benevolent behaviour in the IRC channel of animebloggers hosted under Maestro: the channel is located at #animeblogger on irc.irchighway.net. People can check us out there. I am quite jovial and facile in the channel, and yes, sometimes I reach extremes of being quite stupid, but I enter to chat and to joke with my fellow bloggers, and sometimes discuss matters that are relevant to our interests, not be in an English class or a class of manners. Saturnine, on the other hand, is a curmudgeon who offends many people’s sensibilities. (I say this without vitriol; I cannot find another more fitting word.) I believe he has trolled everyone except a few regulars of that channel, and I believe that those regulars can attest to this.

I speak of this in all honesty: saturnine lashes with harsh words at almost everyone, and I find that a character like this cannot ever promote community. Can you imagine someone like Adolf Hitler talking about the union of the human race? I sure cannot. This is similarly the reason why I can never believe that he wrote that. I would highly promote what he proposed in that post of his if Jeff Lawson wrote it; right now, I feel too surprised that he even had the gall to write a post like that.

I wish most of you people will listen to me. I believe that if you follow his exhortations, you will just be like Hitler’s people: it will probably merely be a confederacy of dunces.

I am inviting a lot of flak from the community, imagined or otherwise; feel free to heap your insults with your comments.

Have a nice day. 🙂

47 Responses to “12 Days of Christmas: a confederacy of dunces?”

  1. Owen S Says:

    I laughed long and hard.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

    Then I realised you weren’t joking, and I laughed harder.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

    I consider this the best thing since trolling aurabolt in that thread directed at me in that I MUST SUCCEED blog this morning.

  2. lolikitsune Says:

    Man, Mike, grow up? Please?

    Owen trolls me more than anyone else, and it’s delicious. I can’t get enough of it. The fact that you take offense at his character is silly. He’s a shithead in IRC but hell—I was a shithead in IRC, and you didn’t mind me. I was a shithead in my posts, too, and you liked me.

    Aside from this one post, have you read his blog—at all?

    He’s brilliant. His posts are brilliant. He’s kind of like a more intelligent you, only he lapses more severely in relaxed chat. Anyway, I digress, and I don’t mean to insult you, so I guess I’ll stop here.

    Just like, um, you know.

    Grow up.

  3. Michael Says:

    You didn’t troll everyone at IRC, lolikit. You just trolled Jason Miao IIRC.

    Haha, lapses more severely … hahaha … I wasn’t trolling. It was highly disquieting for me that I had to write something about it.

  4. lolikitsune Says:

    I AM SORRY

  5. Kabitzan Says:

    Is this post about Adolf Hitler serious?!

  6. Sagacious C Says:

    I think this is my first time here at your blog, but do you always post like this? And when I say “like this”, I mean the diction…not the actual content. No one will think any less of you if you spoke informally, ya know. You can put the thesaurus down now and give it a rest. Ah-hyuk.

  7. Totali Says:

    Eh, it’s the truth. Saturine from irc and Owen from Cruel Angel are like totally different people.

  8. Owen S Says:

    For the record I have never denied being an ass on IRC, I just don’t see the point in adding noise to a post by saying “This is what we plan to do with the community, and oh btw I make fun of you if you are on #ab and you say stupid things in my presence”.

    Of course mike has been victim to this tendency of mine or what Americans call “burn” and “oh snap”, but you get the idea. Also, to put things in perspective, I am currently on excellent terms with the 40 or so people in the channel (of which only 25-30% are anime bloggers) bar mike.

  9. Michael Says:

    @Owen

    I don’t know what you mean excellent, Owen. I really don’t. Perhaps because it’s only me who speak of it, but if excellent for you meant ‘really bad,’ then I’d have to agree.

    @Sagacious

    You have not read my other posts yet. I write like this most of the time.

    @Kabitzin

    You should go hang out more at the IRC channel sometime. I think you’d understand me if you were.

    Everyone:

    His attitude towards most people in the channel is disrespectful, if not downright base. I don’t know what channel he’s talking about where his terms with people are ‘excellent,’ because he has insulted almost everyone in #ab.

    I don’t believe he tries to insult merely idiocy. As kur0gan3 stated, he seeks simply to piss everyone off. If that doesn’t convince you, please, feel free to hang around in our channel. If saturnine changes for the better, it will be good, then – one less bastard; if not, you’ll see the reason exactly why disgust filled me when he spoke of ‘community.’ It’s a win-win situation. 🙂

  10. tj han Says:

    This is a great post, keep it up, Roosevelt of anime blogging!

  11. TheBigN Says:

    As totali has said, there’s a difference between what he does on IRC and what he does on the blog. And I’d like to think he puts the same amount of effort into both (take that as you may), so it’s fun to compare the two results. His anime blog should be something that you would be into. Seriously. You’d just have to move your feelings about him aside and focus on what he’s actually putting on the site. I figure you would have no problems with doing something like that. And if you can’t, that’s kind of depressing. 🙁

    And I’d also say to really take what Owen says on IRC in stride. The internet isn’t serious business, right? :/

  12. Michael Says:

    TheBigN:

    I have had been ignoring him for quite some time. He was offensive; so I ignored him. I believed that he could change for the better; it was sad, however, that after I didn’t want to dodge or avoid the issue anymore, he was still the same.

    I do not start muckraking in the channel, but I have had to retaliate because patience can only go for so long. I will try and expend effort, however, in exploring his blog in the near future.

    N, most people are not as patient as you. And admit it, saturnine’s words are offensive and highly insulting most of the time. Lupus is ignoring saturnine. He said to me that he cannot bear being called dumb every second sentence. And you can go ask him that. That doesn’t feel good, does it?

    Internet is not serious business, supposedly, but when a guy like saturnine merely aims to provoke anyone and everyone in disagreement with him, whilst trying to aim for something altruistic, something must be said. This is where the Adolf Hitler comparisons come in. I will take flak, I may be insulted, but I’m not making things up.

  13. sage Says:

    …What?

    Mike, when I started reading saturnine’s post, I thought I would go “SHIT SUCKS FAGGOT” because of my normal predisposition toward him. When your most avid fan is lolikitsune, well… that doesn’t say anything good about you or the stuff you write. But since I don’t read Cruel Angel Testes anyways, I might digress.

    This time, the guy’s writing a very sober, balanced post the whole blog community (I wouldn’t defer to his view of anime blog types as a “caste system”, though. Caste would mean one type is above the other), while inviting to unity and to experiment new methods of blogging; and I can’t help but applaud his intentions.

    The guy can be quite a douche, I get it, but that doesn’t mean I would turn blind if he ever does something good. And you, mike, have chosen the worst moment to troll his opinions. Comparing any blogger/reader/whatever siding with him on his cause to Hitler is… well, saturnine himself pointed it out quite well on his first comment.

  14. Michael Says:

    I am not trolling. I was merely trying to inform, however, of what the people are siding with. Of course they do not know of his actions within IRC, but I merely felt that whosoever follows or sides with him need to be informed of what he is really like.

    I am not turning blind to his intentions. It just strikes me as something abhorrent because it had to be him, of all people, to write that. That was why I said that what was written was good, but him to write it of all people was very alienating.

    You should know that most of the people who sided with him did not know of his true intentions; they were blindly following him, and this is what I want to avoid with the community. Please, do hang around IRC and see his true colors. The truth will set one free.

    It is because to me I feel he has ulterior motives behind his exhortations with the personality he presents in IRC. I hope not, but if he does, I hope people will discriminate properly.

  15. 0rion Says:

    Take all this stuff with a big grain of salt. Owen may have been the initial impetus that started this “ABC” thing, but with over 30 bloggers professing to be part of the group, many of whom I have a great deal of respect and admiration for, I can’t see it going anywhere unsavory.

    Regardless of his behavior on IRC (which I’m well aware of), he’s done well as the catalyst to start interesting new trends in the blogging community.

    Even if his ultimate motive is just e-penis and empire building, I think the end result will be something beneficial for the community, readers and writers alike. That said, I can understand how you wouldn’t lend much credibility to a group whose ostensible leader has a history of being rather crass.

    I would probably feel much the same way if reading something sagematt wrote about community building – extremely hard to take seriously. For what it’s worth, though, I think this particular endeavor is something we’re trying to do with the best of intentions. Hopefully you can overlook some of the flaws and instead focus on the positive results. 😛

    Also, in regard to Sagacious C’s comment – you keep right on doing what you’re doing. I rather appreciate your writing style, even if it might come off as a bit hubris laden at times. 😉

  16. Michael Says:

    Ori0n:

    I am positive that the results will be positive in the near future. Despite being doubtful of your ostensible leader, I have no doubt with the constituents of the ABC – not only because of you, but because people I read and admire, like Karura and Higevs, also belong there. I have no qualms with the constituents; I just wanted to clarify whether it was merely a confederacy of dunces – I guess it is not, as I trust your words. 🙂

    As for the rest, the offer still stands: please come to the #animeblogger channel over at irc.irchighway.net, and see firsthand the wonderful actuations of this ostensible leader of yours. 🙂

  17. NovaJinx Says:

    Well written, mike. I agree to this text for the most part. No matter how much convincing this comment-flood contains on how saturnine is a nice guy despite what he’s on irc/internets, I’d find him and his attitude the main reasons to give me doubts if I was to join ABC. Which isn’t happening since I’m not really part of an anime blogging community to begin with so I guess that makes me an outsider. So let me stand here, watch and laugh at the shitstorm as it unfolds.

    As for personal thoughts, not that they matter, while using Hitler as an example goes over the top imo, one thing is pretty clear to me and I’m quite aware that a bunch of people agree with me on this; even if he writes like an angel, saturnine is pretty much a bastard on IRC. Not necessarily towards me but he still is, and I don’t like to deal with bastards even if they were geniouses otherwise. No offence intended. Or maybe I did.

  18. Karura Says:

    Wait…IRC isn’t just for leeching anime and manga?

  19. Anya Says:

    It’s amusing how people like to differentiate between IRC and blog–as if they were completely different worlds. 🙂 Saturnine just likes being “official” on his blog, so naturally he takes out all the shit before hitting the Publish button (I’d love to see his draft work some time). Mike is a bit less reserved when it comes to that, and I only see that as a sign of honesty. Granted, I don’t know these people very well. :s

  20. IKnight Says:

    IRC is a reductive place, where the people talk with their spinal cords. Blog entries rather less so.

    I’d say there’s room here to take texts independently of their authors (Spenser advocated ethnic cleansing, but you won’t hear me complaining about The Faerie Queene).

    I appreciate that the Hitler comparison is hyperbole, but it’s unwise to mention Mr H on the internet for just the reason Owen highlighted above. And Owen loves his fallacies.

  21. Kljigen Says:

    lolikitsune Says:
    Man, Mike, grow up? Please?

    My opinion: Bias.

    Owen S Says:
    Of course mike has been victim to this tendency of mine or what Americans call “burn” and “oh snap”, but you get the idea.

    My opinion: Everyone has been a victim except a selected few.

    I am currently on excellent terms with the 40 or so people in the channel (of which only 25-30% are anime bloggers) bar mike.

    My opinion: Well, considering the bots hate you too… I’ll say that that is a nice joke.

    TheBigN Says:
    Seriously. You’d just have to move your feelings about him aside and focus on what he’s actually putting on the site.

    My opinion: Easy for you to say it. Once a person leave a bad impression to you, would you still judge him with fairness? Maybe yes, but right now we are talking about really bad impression to the point that it is… I have no idea what impression mike has on saturnine so i shall leave it blank.

    Oh well, who cares about my opinion anyway. I can’t even spell opinion unless i do trial and error. I have read both saturnine’s post and mike’s post and all the comments. Well, sat’s post doesn’t really relates to me since I am not an animeblogger (oh wait I am! I have a blog! Comment on it!) and I am not interested in the collaboration. I also have no idea how popular sat is. The only thing I know is, the things that sat type in irc either 1. Doesn’t go through his brain or 2. Added with enough offensive capability to kill. I rarely agreed with him in any discussion but that may be due to the fact that I am reluctant to join in any discussion that he is involved in to prevent myself from seeing another offensive comment towards me.

    To end it off, I would add a quote from kur0gan3 and once the topic of #animeblogger: “Ignore saturnine if he tries to piss you off.”

  22. bateszi Says:

    Jesus, I never realized there was this kind of antagonism between anime bloggers. Michael, I don’t use IRC (I’m not a pedophile, so I don’t need to) but I can speak about the ABC; Owen started it all, but he isn’t the dictator. If we’re going to use political terms, it’s more like communism. For some reason, I thought you’d already joined up, but I guess not?

  23. Kljigen Says:

    @batezsi
    IRC IS ONLY FOR PEDOS???? lol.

  24. Kurogane Says:

    Says the person who’s IRC trigger is set to “loli”

  25. Michael Says:

    Kurogane and Kljigen: LOL

  26. Totali Says:

    If my blog was like IRC I would be like

    /me shoots his pewpewlazers at all his commenters

    Wait…

  27. lolikitsune Says:

    Alright, I have more to say on the topic.

    Mike—I’m actually sorry for being harsh in my original reply. The fact that you said all that shit about Owen (and perfectly seriously, at that) did kind of anger me. I know he’s an ass in IRC, and that he provokes everyone, but how is that a problem? He provokes me all the time, insulting what I like and treating me like shit and all that, but do I care? No. I’d say that he IS on good terms with lots of people because you can be on good terms while insulting each other. It’s called friendly prodding.

    Now maybe you took offense because you’re not friends with him, or because you’re not as tolerant, or because you’re stuck up (which I like to think you’re not), but… whatever it is, it’s silly. It’s not just the one post—Owen’s blog is spectacular. As he’s stated many times in many places, he aspired to be akin to a new form of the old jp meyer (who was hands down the best anime blogger before he finished school). And it’s not just that he’s stated this many times: it’s apparent in his posts. They’re long but not a pain to read like mine. They’re intelligent but not dictionary-requiring like yours. They’re insightful.

    As for his creation of ABC or whatever the shit that is (stupid elite inner circle bastards!!), isn’t that like seeding a torrent? It’s his giving back to the community. He doesn’t blog unilaterally the way Jason does and he doesn’t try to separate himself from what he’s doing (and the others doing it) the way Lovely Kitsune does. He builds off the community.

    In my opinion, he really is an expert anime blogger. He respects the community and he wants to see it thrive. He appreciates other people blogging. And so on… I could go on forever, I think, so I’ll try to wind down here.

    My point is: whatever your problem with saturnine, Owen is brilliant.

    I don’t know if I’m his number one fan (you’ll find more flaming comments from me on his blog than anything else) or anything like that, but I think that if I set aside all my trolling, all my emo shittiness, and all that, I can see that his blog is a Good Thing and that what he wants to do with the community is also a Good Thing.

  28. TheBigN Says:

    Kljigen: “Once a person leave a bad impression to you, would you still judge him with fairness?”

    Depends on the situation, but even then things waver. I know that most of the time on #ab Owen’s a firestarter just for the sake of being one. Unless you do something like kick him, and he doesn’t feel like he deserved it (since a lot of the times he seems to know he does :P), he’s not going to hold a grudge. The conversations between him and Mike on IRC are starting to remind me of Scryed (i.e. way more serious than it should be).All we need is an overblown knock-down dragout fight, and it would be perfect. 😛 I definitely think Mike’s more serious about them than Owen will probably ever be, but that’s me, I guess.

    BTW, that “Seriously.” was referring to my saying that Owen’s blog is something that I think Mike can like.

    I agree with lk that what he doing with his blog, and what he’s attempting to do with the ABC are good things for the anime community. For me, it doesn’t matter who says it as long as they say something good on their blogs. IRC is just IRC, and though I don’t understand why Owen goes as far as he does sometimes, what he does on #animeblogger isn’t what he does on other IRC channels, as well as beyond. I’d like to think of #ab as an interesting deviation from what he usually is like. But who knows? It is still the internet.

    I understand how bad he can be, as I’m in the channel a lot when he does it , but I still think this post is way more overreaction than anything else. It’s at least increasing the comments you recieve though, right (just kidding BTW)?

  29. Michael Says:

    TheBigN:

    I guess. I believe I am not overreacting, though. It was quite disquieting for me. You are not trolled by him; I do not know why, but it is hard to be tolerant when you are in my shoes. Think about that first.

    You will become serious when you are trolled as much as me. It is hard not to, and most of the channel (not you, of course) can attest.

    I am getting my comments, though. Thanks.

  30. The Second Moment of Christmas: Genshiken, or Transience in motion » Cruel Angel Theses ♪ Says:

    […] Mike’s post, on the other hand, is ridiculously overt in its intentions; the classic ad hominem is there from the beginning, in addition to the association fallacy in his remark about the “confederacy of dunces” and Reductio ad Hitlerum, (of which the last is taken quite literally). He also appears to have taken a leaf or two from Ashley’s book, since he commits the same tu quoque and appeal to motive fallacies that she has. […]

  31. Hige Says:

    Trust Karura and Bateszi to get in there with the flippant sarcasm first. Now I don’t have anything offhand to underline the silliness of this character assassination. My national identity is in turmoil D;

    But I want to assert the point that the ABC is not a dictatorship, nor is Owen our ‘leader’. Nearly every single joint thing we’ve done has been coordinated/organised by a different person. Often by a group of people; we’re a collective, not a hierarchy.

    As for Owen, why take anyone’s internet persona so seriously? I get the impression this whole thing amounts to two people who rub each other the wrong way and seemingly can’t leave it at that.

  32. usagijen Says:

    well hmm… I try not to take people’s comments and offensive remarks personally against them, especially in IRC, or their blogs for that matter.

    There are just certain people who enjoys pissing others, being all tsuntsun and all, but who knows, they might be all dere-dere deep inside when you get to know them! (Mike, with the tsun- side of Owen you showed, and the little dere- side I see of him. I now find him an official tsundere lol)

    and about the ABC, I joined because I thought it’d be fun! No dictatorship, no Hitlers and all. I see it as something that will allow me to get closer to the other bloggers, who are also part of it 🙂

  33. We can has community? « orz - SWISS CHEESE PORN Says:

    […] December 17, 2007 Dorama tl;dr: Owen becomes a gigantic badass hivemind overlord belt (ala The Borg Collective (7 of 9) or Queen Kerrigan, only not female), Mike goes “LOL NO U OWEN SI TEH HITLER LOLOLOL“ and everyone goes “Noez we si not teh Zerg/Borg”. And then, out of nowhere, someone mutters “Resistance is useless!” Or “INVISIBLE COMMUNITY”, or something. […]

  34. Christopher Fritz Says:

    Well, I can see someone found a way to get a little extra holiday traffic, as this kind of post always tends to do 😉 I’ve seen past posts of yours recently, Michael, so your RSS’s now part on my daily read, to see if there’ll be anything of interest to me.

    I’m of the mind of the community outweighing the individual with this ABC group. I think anything which gets people thinking and writing can only be good (but that may be in part because I’d had no success at any thoughtful writing this year…)

    About the IRC, I just entered the channel for the first time ever (I believe), and within a few IMs, I think I’m scarred for life. (I think maybe I’m too much of a goody-goody to take part in any anime communities…)

    This whole post about Hitler and whatnot sounds like going over the top with something (if it’s intended seriously), but I can understand the reasoning behind it. Not like there’s a problem with someone posting what they want on their own blog (outside of maybe going against ones host’s terms of service). Doesn’t matter me to, I’ll still be checking further posts, as your writing style looks good, Michael.

  35. sunami Says:

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    This is Sunami Musashiro from 77 STAR PTE LTD. I sincerely apologize for spamming your forum last time, as I am still ignorant to the Netiquette in the English-speaking Internet communities.
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  36. Michael Says:

    sumami:

    This is not a forum; this is a blog.

    Christopher Fritz:

    If I wanted traffic, I would have posted lolis a long time ago. 🙂

  37. Christopher Fritz Says:

    Right, right, didn’t mean to suggest you were trying for traffic, only that this was a good way to bring it in (although not intentional) =P

  38. Hidoshi Says:

    You people are all forgetting Godwin’s Law damnit. This post should never have been commented on. 😛

  39. Countdown to Christmas #2: On Being Part of the Anime Blogging Community (in general, not simply ABC) | The Scrumptious Anime Blog Says:

    […] something else for this day, but I just thought this would be more appropriate for the recent turn of events in the […]

  40. anime|otaku » Blog Archive » How to make your blog popular in five (easy?) steps Says:

    […] step: Owen S, DarkMirage, and wildarmsheero. These guys are popular because they write flame-baits. Even I did a Godwin’s Law on Owen. (The comparison made a lot of sense to me, though.) DarkMirage, passer of JLPT 1, attacks other […]

  41. Lelangir Says:

    /marvels in the sociology of blogdom.

    And is this Saturnine guy that Ikimashou.net that is apparently down?

  42. Free Starcraft 2 CD Keys Says:

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  46. cheap hats Says:

    You people are all forgetting Godwin’s Law damnit. This post should never have been commented on.

  47. Frank Tasker Says:

    Dont post your full name (at least leave out your middle initial), your address, your email address, birth date, or your phone number to any of your social networking profiles. Though most find address from phone number sites prompt for them they arent required, so dont post them.

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