[Code Geass R2] Another nail in Lelouch’s coffin
I wished there was a true kiss between them.
Well, I think this hammers another nail in Lelouch’s coffin:
I just want to point out that the official Geass-net mobile site explains in Nunnally’s profile that her blindness gives her the ability to see through the hearts of people just by touching their hands, and in the final episode she found out everything with said ability. Officially, that flashback scene had nothing to do with Lelouch and Codes.
C.C.’s profile has also been updated, and the final part of it now says: “Knowing that Lelouch does not hate her for giving him the Geass, she is now able to show her true feelings. With the realization of “Zero Requiem”, her time with Lelouch, who was able to forgive and accept her, came to an end, but the memories created with him has, without doubt, saved her from eternal loneliness.”
Having read this, C.C. appears to have been talking about herself when she said this line in the end: “The power of the king will isolate you… I guess it turned out a little different after all… right, Lelouch?”. The power of the king eventually leads to immortality (Code); C.C. had the power of the king and for a long time led a lonely existence, but she is now no longer lonely, thanks to her time with Lelouch.
Unless they update Lelouch’s profile with some kind of “but maybe he didn’t actually die” line, it seems to me that officially, Lelouch is 100% dead. None of the magazines seem to think the ending is at all ambiguous, and none of the staff and cast members seem to think so either. Okouchi, especially, appears to be pretty final about Lelouch’s death in his interview (”His life had not been in vain. That was why he smiled in the end”, along with his explanation as to why the punishment was necessary from the beginning). As for Taniguchi, he said only 2 things: (in the NewType interview itself) it’s up to the viewers whether they want to think of the ending as a Happy End or a Bad End. He thinks of it as a Happy End. As for what the epilogue meant, the viewers ought to work it out for themselves. The meaning behind C.C.’s final line appears to be part of what he wanted viewers to think about, though Geass-net’s already given us the answer to that. Lelouch’s fate, is, IMO, not part of what he wanted viewers to think about, because as far as the staff members are concerned Lelouch’s fate wasn’t at all ambiguous.
By the way, Shimomura Takaharu, one of the staff members involved with advertising, wrote in his “Parting message to Lelouch” (from Animedia):
“Let’s all go to the World of C” (For more details, refer to the R2 drama CDs)
Looks like SE6 will feature a track about everyone going to the World of C.
Tomikawa Kiyoharu (Production Desk) has this to say to Lelouch:
“Rest in peace. I’m begging you, please don’t come back ever again. (The animating process was just too much trouble!)”
Most of the staff members’ parting messages for Lelouch are pretty hilarious, and are in keeping with the Geass sense of humour.
The quote was taken from Celiss Galvea, among the most trusted translators of Code Geass information on the web.
Knowing more and more about the ultimate fate of Lelouch brings me closer to accept that Geass has finally ended. My only misgiving is that CC and Lelouch never really had a true kiss between themselves: I don’t mind if his ultimate fate is death, but I would want something to have happened before he passed away. I simply wish that, if ever there is going to be an OVA, they’d at least clarify Lelouch’s dedication and love for CC and vice versa.
See you space cowboy.
P.S. Taken from Zetsubun (thanks!)
From massive section dedicated to Geass in “Continue” volume 47:
Lelouch’s name is on the ‘deceased’ list. ;/
—–Congratulations on the completion of “Code Geass”!! It was a shocking final episode; did you have a difficult time writing it, Mr. Okouchi?
Okouchi: “No. The last episode wasn’t difficult at all; in fact, it was the middle parts of R2 that turned out to be rough going. For the final episode, [I'd/we'd] already decided on the ending when writing the script for the first episode of the previous series. Episode 1, Episode 25 (Episode 1 and the final episode of the previous series) and episode 25 of R2 — these episodes did not deviate much from our original plans.”
—–”Some unresolved mysteries still remain.”
Okouchi: “From the very beginning, [I/we] never planned on explaining everything. In fact, if you ask me, I think we might have overdone the explanations. While it’s undeniable that Lelouch’s story has ended with a full stop, the other characters’ stories are still on-going, and it’s not like the world [of Code Geass] itself has come to an end either. [I/we] didn’t want to end it by closing it up for good.”
—–”Still, isn’t it possible that defeating the wise ruler Schneizel, the person who was supposed to have brought order to the world, might lead to some [viewers] interpreting it as a Bad End?”
Okouchi: “That’s true. There are probably a lot of people who think of it as a Bad End, a tragedy, considering the protagonist’s, Lelouch’s end as well. However, Lelouch says in the first episode: “Only those prepared to be shot are allowed to pull the trigger themselves.” If you were to think of that as his pride, then I think his getting shot (killed) in the end was a logical end. Of course, I understand that not all of the viewers will accept this ending. There were people who wanted a happier ending, after all.”
—–”Was there a dispute among the staff members regarding the ending?”
Okouchi: “No. It was decided fairly naturally. During the “Code Geass” script meetings, there are many cases in which there were a number of disputes, but there were barely any when it came to the scripts for (the previous series’s) episode 25 and the final episode. I think everyone felt the same when it came to the end of the character that is Lelouch.”
—–”Why were you so bold as to choose this ending when the viewers might see it as a Bad End?”
Okouchi: “Bold… yes, we were so bold as to chose this ending. Perhaps the show that is “Code Geass” ending up this way was decided the moment Director Taniguchi and I teamed up. I suppose you can call it our sense of aesthetics, or perhaps a part of our psychological makeup.”
Tags: Anime, CC, Code Geass, Code Geass R2, Lelouch, Sadness
October 15th, 2008 at 1:45 am
ALL HAIL LELOUCH
October 15th, 2008 at 2:01 am
I was telling people that Nunnally could see people’s hearts by touching their hands and they were like “No she can’t lol Lelouch must have a code.”
If more people recognize this fact (established back in season one) and accept that Lelouch doesn’t necessarily have a code, I’m glad for the quoted material, but really we had access to this information previously. Bitches need to listen to me more.
October 15th, 2008 at 2:07 am
We were in denial, Michael.
Well, I was, but I also accepted the very good possibility that he was dead. What I actually wanted was to see something happen between CC and Lelouch, because what was going to be their first true kiss was cockblocked by Kallen. >:(
I want to see an OVA where they really show their feelings for one another. That would be great.
Even if he dies, as long as she knows he loves her, and she loves him, I wouldn’t mind. It’s just too tragic if there was never a consummation of their feelings for one another.
October 15th, 2008 at 2:33 am
I think she knows that he loves her. I similarly think it’s okay that Kallen interferes because we knew what was going to come next. There’s little doubt in my mind regarding their feelings for each other. I don’t need to see them sticking their tongues in each other’s mouths in order to think to myself, “she loves him. He loves her.”
I was also under the impression that Sunrise was touting the pairing as canon.
I was further under the impression that they’d probably had hot sex on multiple occasions during their long time together.
October 15th, 2008 at 3:01 am
Celiss has always believed in Lelouch’s death, so this is no surprise. I don’t think that’s rock solid proof, but if it gives you closure…then so be it.
Also, Lelouch’s essentially a harem lead, really…it’s hard to say that he didn’t love, somehow, any of the multiple girls who fell in love with him.
October 15th, 2008 at 3:21 am
[...] Knows Where You Keep Pr0n From Michael (quote by Celiss Galvea): I just want to point out that the official Geass-net mobile site explains [...]
October 15th, 2008 at 6:58 am
Yea, he’s most likely dead at this point. However I wish the directors and animation staff didn’t give us such a crappy reason for Nunnaly’s abilities, not just that she can read hearts(wtf?). It seemed that her ability definitely was more like lie detection then if someone’s intentions were good.
October 15th, 2008 at 7:20 am
Ah, first paragraph is sheer reason I never fell on his absolute survival, because I didn’t fully think he acquired the Code or w/e.
Space Cowboy :/
Cheers Mike, hard days for you… dun worry G00s2 is here!
October 15th, 2008 at 8:37 am
“Knowing that Lelouch does not hate her for giving him the Geass, she is now able to show her true feelings.
C.C. knows that Lulu doesnt hate her
shes doesn’t know that he loves her ( if he even does) lol
everyone knows Lulu only loves Nunnally LOL
October 15th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Get thee to a JapaneseEnglish dictionary.
October 15th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
even though i want him to be alive ,but i want to keep my impression how great lelouch is,by sacrificing himself for the greater good, not just like (Light pathetic death which is), thats why All Haill Lelouch!!im really glad I did watched Code Geass!!!
October 15th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
“Sleep well my fallen prince.”
October 15th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
lolikitsune:
I’m like Aristotle in that I value an actuality more than mere potentiality. They don’t really need to stick their tongues into one another to kiss, but I would still like to see a consummation of their emotions rather than ponder what happened behind the scenes. It doesn’t have to be intercourse per se, but I would like to see a confirmation.
Camario:
I’ve always wished (and still am wishing) that Lelouch is alive. I’m sure him dying paints him to be a lot more heroic, but I don’t really care about heroism that much when compared to love. Even if he lived, I still believe that he’d have to serve a heavy punishment: being estranged from Nunnally and most of his friends and having the rest of eternity to ponder on his past sins is, for me, also quite a grave punishment. The only difference between him dying and him living is that if he lived, at least he would accompany CC and she would accompany him. Them suffering through eternity, together, is a lot more redemptive ending for me.
Of course, I’m a guy who believes in the power of love …
Jarmel:
Perhaps it was an offshoot of her being Geassed?
RyanA:
I can’t believe I can’t stop writing about Code Geass. It’s shaping up to be one of my greatest favorites despite its flaws, and this due to the well-made ending. I’m just sad for CC … the only person who she found to be worth dying for died for everyone instead.
BOB:
That is what I want to see. It’s only implied that Lelouch has feelings for CC. I want to see that they love each other. At least, if he really died, it would make his death a lot less painful with me knowing that he loved her and she loved him and him never really needing anything more than to be truly loved as well.
jigen7:
I love Code Geass, and I love it a lot more than Death Note. Light was an asshole who deserved to die by its end. Lelouch had totally redeemed himself and did it in such a heroic fashion.
I’m also glad that I’ve watched Code Geass, and while it no longer occupies my thinking I still lurk /a/ for more information regarding his death or eternal life.
laineyue:
Good night, sweet prince.
P.S.
Baka-Raptor:
Get thee to a proper comment.
October 15th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
ALL HAIL LELOUCH!
October 15th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
I’ve read the interviews, they’re pretty damn ambiguous, and the Geass website has never been a solid source of information because it is updated just to reflect what the viewers have seen in the episodes. Hence why Nunnally was listed as “dead” but was suddenly alive again.
Galvea is also an asshole, you can find sources more reliable and better informed than her elsewhere. Just not at GameFAQs.
October 15th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
But that dose not prove that Lelouch is 100% is dead, becouse he promised C.C. that he will make her smile wile she will die…
I WANT AN OVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT AN OVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT AN OVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT AN OVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT AN OVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT AN OVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT AN OVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT AN OVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ALL HAIL LELOUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 15th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
so after all this, it’s still “whatever you’d like to believe in”, isn’t it? This explanation didn’t make things any clearer to me.
I’m in denial, unless (or maybe “even if”) Taniguchi says otherwise
ALL HAIL LELOUCH!!!
October 15th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
D:<
I was certain for the sake of making money they kept the option for an OVA or movie open too. Well, I guess the story is better if he dies. Though I just can’t see them ignoring the franchise. Maybe four-five years down the line they’ll decide “hey, lets forget all that an make money, what’s Jun up to these days?”
It wouldn’t make sense any other way. Maybe an alternate ending or something.
October 16th, 2008 at 2:18 am
you gonna carry that weight
October 16th, 2008 at 2:43 am
dude.
October 16th, 2008 at 3:12 am
I KNOW I’M ONLY HURTING MYSELF, BUT …
I WANT MY CC x LULU …
;A;
October 16th, 2008 at 6:07 am
Get thee to oblivion.
October 16th, 2008 at 7:40 am
I am under the impression that Lulu could never have “romantic” feelings with any girl.. he had so many around him… i mean it was implied he had feelings for all the girls this season.. why they did that? I dont know..
he loved everyone I guess. and his flashbacks when he was dying had all three kisses with the girls… he liked em all!
October 16th, 2008 at 7:47 am
@ Voglar
wHoa.. can you please translate Japanese for us and tell us the context then?
please dont diss someone who translated something with their time and effort and insult them..
just because you don’t like/refuse to believe the info, does not mean its not reliable.. you think its ambiguous? you really read the interviews? While no where is there a mention of “he is dead” straight out, it is IMPLIED by EVERYONE.. even the MAIN WRITER, staff, VA’s ect..
p.s I am not trying to be rude..
October 16th, 2008 at 9:17 am
Season two was forced to start with a reset, right? I’m guessing that had it gone in the direction Taniguchi originally planned, that kiss in your picture would have been genuine and not about restoring memories. Sigh. I fully share your sentiments regarding Lelouch and C.C. It should also be noted that Lelouch never actually was the first to initiate ANY of the on-screen kisses, which is pretty annoying lol. I too hope an OVA would bring some satisfaction to my inner depraved romance sap.
October 16th, 2008 at 9:41 am
>inner depraved romance sap
Hey, that’s exactly me!
BOB:
That’s why I want an OVA to show them kissing, or at least Lelouch initiating the kiss. :/
lolikitsune:
ANIIIIKIIIIIII
October 17th, 2008 at 12:28 am
I think I’ll believe the anons of 2ch sooner than I’ll believe Celiss Galvea and her bullshit.
October 17th, 2008 at 11:48 am
i want SOLID evidence –
that clearly states “LELOUCH IS DEAD.”
no questions asked .
that’s all .
October 17th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
If they ever bring back Code Geass, it will likely follow the Mai Hime route with an alternate universe setting that takes place right after season one. This could be the “Planned Version” that the creators had wanted to present to its original late night audience. I seriously doubt that Code Geass will continue from were the current R2 had left off. Most likely, it’ll begin right after Stage 25 of the first season. At least that is what I am hoping for. Also, I had wanted to see a resolution between Milly and Lelouch regarding her romantic feelings for him.
October 17th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
LOL
Aww.. you like romance Micheal? I never saw any in this show. hehe…stupid Lelouch had soo many chances.. sigh
Whoa.. Celiss gave all the info for R2 before it started from additional sources and was right… she has always been reliable.. like I said just because you don’t like the info, does not mean its not reliable.. whatever, believe what you want…LOL
at j: episode 25!!!
October 18th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
So wait.
Lelouche is deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeead?
YERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
HE’S DEAD HE’S DEAD ISN’T IT WONDERFUL
October 19th, 2008 at 3:41 am
Hey, first post to this blog
.
I personally thought that Lelouch was suppose to be dead. HOWEVER, I think they deliberately left the ending ambiguous so that IF they happen to have a sequel, they can just say he was the cart driver or whatever.
It would explain why the earlier pictures had the black hair with the cart driver, since they may have been planning then to make a sequel. They may have changed their minds (which would explain why R2 was so rushed and clumped with all this crap) and then decided to end it. Still, theres always the possibility of a large pay check to revive the series in which they can say “Oh yeah, he’s still alive because…”
Just my 2 cents.
October 19th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Man Lelouch fell in love with 3 different chicks vise versa….Died as a playa
October 19th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
@Johal
If Milly had made her feelings for Lelouch known, it might have been 4 women that he might have cared about deeply. However, I think that Lelouch was only in love with 2 women: Shirley and Milly.
October 19th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
To all of the above who discuss Lelouch’s heterosexual amours:
I’m pretty sure Lelouch is gay, and that Suzaku’s penetration of Lelouch with the sword-phallus represents the ultimate consummation of their love. One would also have to take into account the fact that Suzaku must remain masked to commit the forbidden act. Yup.
:p
How’s that, Mike? Heh.
October 19th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
*and by ultimate consummation of their love I also mean Suzaku’s willingness to give Lelouch what he truly desires in submitting him to destructive phallic jouissance.
October 20th, 2008 at 5:25 am
the series is very political. but it’s more than that of course. the emotions are too raw, i got myself wounded while watching. i love it! let us now bury lelouch; he made a difference, really. in fact because of him, i realized that i am also human— a creature capable of shedding infantile tears.
…and so the sun begins to shine! what a beautiful day…
October 20th, 2008 at 10:56 am
I agree with Crazy Demon actually…Lulu is dead until they (Sunrise, not the creators) want another series.. and for all those who still don’t believe he is dead
Lelouch’s profile on geass.net (you have to pay a monthly fee to get this info, it is run by the staff I believe)
“He accomplished Zero Requiem in exchange for his own life”
RIP
October 21st, 2008 at 5:41 am
Fuck you Sunrise, thanks for ruining the ending, you were better off keeping your mouths shut and let us argue about his fate
October 21st, 2008 at 11:02 am
The part about C.C.’s loneliness gone because of her memories of Lulu make no sence at all because in reality she’s still alone even after his death, if that’s the case C.C. would be no different from Charles who focused on the past and not the future and in R2 ep 21, C.C. rejected Charles’ plan to create a world with just memories and she also wanted to embrace the future. And if they say her memories with Lulu took away her loneliness, it’s pretty much the same as C.C. rejecting reality like Charles and Marianne did.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:07 am
Now I can say this with honesty and as a true man of my word. As I always had been:
SHUT
THE
F###
UP,
LELOUCH.
I gotta say that after all of $unrise/Bancolding$’ “dead but not dead” antics, the killing of Lelouch at the end was THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:32 am
“then I think his getting shot”
“shot”
Yea cause getting shot really killed mao…
If you think hes 100% dead your 100% retarded. They can say whatever they want, it does not change the fact that his death is far from 100%, and if sunrise orders more, more will come with lulu at the head. Money> one script writer.
Also whats posted on the website doesnt mean anything, you realize they also listed nunally as dead right?
Also Also “lol I can see peoples hearts”, I dont believe that, code geass isnt some world of magic everywhere, there is a geass, thats it.
October 26th, 2008 at 5:47 am
HEY GUYS!
Take a look over here, do you see what I see?
I see a person who will always deny what Sunrise or Script writer say. I will always believe that Lelouch is alive and I want you to join me.
Dont give in their lies, give your full support to Lelouch and never back off. Believe in him and together we will force Sunrise to accept it!
Because we are their fans and we demand Lelouch to be alive.
No more speculations! We know that and we want him to be alive!
October 26th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
[...] and a sense of right and wrong. Obviously, for this to work, Lelouch has to be dead, but when even Michael is willing to admit that he’s probably dead, then you have to go with it on the balance of [...]
October 27th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Let’s face it the ending was vague on purpose. The fact that he never “resolved” the issue of C.C.’s wish hangs over the entire thing, clouding the issue.
The fact that the wagon driver at the end was VERY conspicuous looking was also intentional.
One thing that everyone should be sure of though, there will be no OVA and there will be no R3.
The best we can hope for is Nightmare of Nunally or one of the equally inventive spinoff mangas currently in the works.
October 27th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Forgot to mention in my other post.
Other potential spinoffs, C.C. had known George Washington during the unsuccessful American Revolution. Perhaps old cherry-tree chopper with geass? Possibilities abound.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
I wouldn’t mind an alternate universe version of Code Geass R2(The Planned Version of the early episodes at the late night audience) that continues after Stage 25 of the First Season. The last 13 episodes were biggest rush job that I have ever seen. No resolution whatsoever. And I certainly would have loved to have seen more Milly x Lelouch relationship developments. It was a huge disappointment that they never had Milly to confront her feelings with Lelouch in Turn 12.
October 29th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Code Guess was really nice to follow
Although Why such a tragic ending, i cried in the end as it was so emotinal
I dont know about you guys but i hope there another one to come cause in the end theres C.C who is with Loulouche on that caravan in the end…
Anyway the code guess to me is just a mass tragedy nothing good in the manga just sorrows and negative crap to watch, not even enough fights between the mechas still……. just more and more tradgedy
Thanks for making such a tragedy oukouchi you realy have a mind worth of horror movies…. Make more action next time…..
And yeah All hail loulouche…….. “come on….”
Make it a better ending and more action nest time plz, enough tragedy for now…..
October 30th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
*pats*
I feel your pain.
Looking at all these Lelouch-alive-believers who still refuse to believe his ultimate sacrifice MEANT SOMETHING even after they read THE CREATORS SAID HE WAS DEAD really makes people shake their head.
Don’t give in? There’ll be an OVA where he’s alive???
They can keep waiting for things that will never come. Eventually they’ll forget, as we’ll remember Lelouch’s sacrifice and all that he’d done.
November 2nd, 2008 at 3:32 am
Well, despite everything, I think people are still free to believe what they want to believe. No point in resorting to name calling. If you really want to believe he’s alive, go ahead. The creators didn’t deny anyone that. Even the creators themselves are free to believe whatever they want. The moment you start name calling, is the moment you prove to the world you have been swayed. Thus the extreme reaction. So please, let’s not diss anyone and be happy with whatever you decide to go with. It’s a work of fiction to begin with so anything that’s ‘fact’, isn’t really one anyway. Not without it being a gigantic oxymoron, that is.
November 2nd, 2008 at 10:49 am
If this is true, then I have just lost all respect for Gode Geass. First off R2 was a complete trainwreck. The ending was slightly good, but only because it left some room for Lelouch to be alive. Are the writers retarded? They’re willing to bring back to life every useless character in the book, but they feel the need to produce a Death Note ending? And they had to put the worst character, Susaku, as Zero? The guy can’t lead a parade, so how is he going to lead the entire world?
There are so many things in this anime that they never fully explained, and I don’t take that crap that, “We never meant to explain everything.” That’s not artistic, that’s laziness. There is currently a debate on wikipedia article on Lelouch regarding that article. Some say the maker of the series was very vague when he did this interview.
R2 had its moments, but it was a trainwreck the rest of the way.
November 2nd, 2008 at 10:56 am
Although unless there is a R3 or OVA this really doesn’t matter. The fans can take the series in whatever direction they want through fanfiction and fanart. Also, even if Lelouch is dead, he’s still alive in the world of C anyway.
November 2nd, 2008 at 10:59 am
This is why Sunrise should never make anime again. Sorry to leave three comments. This thing doesn’t have a comment editor XD.
Seriously though, Nunally wasn’t even blind at that time(and this so called power is even more complicated than most of the Lelouch is alive theories).
November 2nd, 2008 at 1:16 pm
OK where does it say anywhere in this article that Lelouch was confirmed to be dead? I didn’t see it anywhere. I’m also dying to see this article and interview for what it was because from what i’m seeing its just vague comments that don’t at all confirm what people are claiming. Of course lelouch vi britannia would be listed among the dead he does legally die. Whether or not hes a code or not is the question.
November 4th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Actually I don’t mind he die or not. The important thing to me is C.C. and him >.<”. Now official dead msg has release, I guess those flame and dicussion of Lelouch dead or alive will be calm down.
All Hail Lelouch!
November 4th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/3955/000dhwrrjy1.jpg
sry hes dead.
we will always luv u lulu
November 6th, 2008 at 12:42 am
[...] to pop a blood vessel as to why they didn’t end off with Heaven’s Feel, or have some form of [...]
November 7th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
If lelouch did really die permanently, why would orange let suzaku get past him so easily and smile while doing so, then after lulu is dead he quickly pulls back instead of going into an emotional rage and seeking revenge, like we’ve come to expect from orange-kun. Starting up that orange plantation was worth sacrificing his majesty lelouch? doesnt add up.
“so if he didnt really die, then his sacrifice was in vain? and he screwed over suzaku making him be zero? and what about never seeing nunnally?”
The achievement of true world piece doesnt even begin to compare to the happiness of a few individuals. Suzaku was happy to take on the burden of being zero to help him repent for killing his dad and betraying his country etc. He’s been searching for punishment for a long time. And even though lelouch cant see nunally, he knows suzaku is watching over her and that’s enough for him.
That’s the way i see it, but there’s plenty of arguement for him being dead too. I guess that’s what makes the ending so mindblowingly great.
November 11th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Lelouch vi Brittania died but Lelouch is reborn as an immortal (due to charles’ code) who is starting a new life with a different identity (possibly with the name L.L. or R.R) and that dosn’t lessen his sacrifice because the people hated “Lelouch vi Brittania” and now he is dead, so my point is that even for the code to activate Lelouch vi Brittania would have to die first. And for those who think that Lelouch getting Charle’s code is speculation, I would like to respond by saying that in R2 ep 21, when Charles strangled Lulu, Lulu told Suzaku not to interfere and Charles vanished when Lulu gave the begone geass (which Charles said in the beginning of the episode that Geass dosn’t work on the world of C) so one can believe that Charles’ code power was weakening ever since Lulu geassed the Gods and that power could very likely have been transferred to Lulu because the Gods are the ones who control the World of C along with humanity (which is why Charles tried to destroy them in the first place). Also, Charles mentioned that those who defeat a person with a code become the successors of the code. For those of you who say that Lulu is dead just because Okouchi says so, I would like to mention that Charles’ death IS confirmed in those same sources which confirmed “Lelouch vi Brittania’s” death so therefore Lelouch did gain the code and Okouchi mentioned that “Lelouch vi Brittania had to pay the price for creating the new world” which he did by getting “killed” by Suzaku and throwing away his life and identity as Lelouch vi Brittania and now he is living as an immortal who no longer lives by the identity of Lelouch vi Brittania. If you think about it, this makes sence because if you look back at C.C.’s life, she lost her old identity from the moment she “died” and became immortal and ever since then, it was the beginning of a new life for C.C. and the same applies for Lelouch. I would also like to mention to those who think that people who don’t agree with Okouchi’s words are disrespecting him (along with the producers of geass) that I completely disagree with that sentiment because he never really elaborated on Lulu’s death (although it seemed like he was supporting it) but he was simply giving his insight about the ending and I am sure he would actually be happy if we questioned his statement by providing evidence from the series because it would show how dedicated the fans are to Code Geass
November 21st, 2008 at 11:50 am
Well all you guys who think that hes dead are either stupid or just haters. Id probably point this at the fags who hate it and the Kalulu fans who cant possibly see lelouch with someone other than Kallen.
So
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/3955/000dhwrrjy1.jpg
says the Lelouch vi Britannia died. But if you can actually read it, or translate it like i did, you also find that Charles also died.
Now can someone tell me how an immortal can die? Oh yeah, thats right he cant unless, in the code geass world, someone with a fully matured geass takes it from them, (like Charles did to VV) or it is forcefully passed to them as in CC’s case.
You dont just lose it for the hell of it.
As for Lelouch being dead, its true, his existence was erased. He no longer is alive. That mask, that he was wearing was destroyed when he “died”. There is more than one way to die, just think about when people fake their death, they “die” but live on as someone else. This is just as he did, exept he made it more believable by dying in from of the world. No way of faking that unless you have a code and can return to life later. So “lelouch” lives on now as something like RR or LL, something like that. Its just as CC, she no longer is w/e her first name was but CC.
Yeah, karate chop
November 21st, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Charles did die you idiot, Lelouch pleaded with the human concious for a tomorrow, the result is that Charles body was permenatly erased killing him. That’s why its stated that Lelouch killed him, because well LELOUCH KILLED HIS FATHER!
Also if Lelouch was dead in the sense that Lelouch Vi Britannia was dead but not the man behind the mask, than Suzaku would be listed. Stop being in denial and admit that Okouchi has stated that Lelouch died, the staff has stated that Lelouch died, so Lelouch is dead.
November 22nd, 2008 at 7:46 am
Ill be quiet if you can answer my one question…well maybe 2.
1…
How does someone with a code die?
and 2…I dont really care what Okouchi said…for all you know he could be screwing with you.
I know its all over saying that lelouch is dead, but you know, the official geass website, geass.jp STILL hasnt listed him as dead. Haha….eh, im not in denial, maybe you just cant comprehend this.
One example of something screwy was in TTGL, we all thought yoko’s last name was ritona but it was really littner…wtf…
November 22nd, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Zongetsu is completely right, Okouchi’s statment is completely inconsistent with the series and in reality nobody cares about his statement except for Kalulu fans and the haters which Zongetsu mentioned earlier. I have been through 100000’s of forum polls regarding whehter or not Lulu is dead (with Okouchi’s words taken into consideration) and all of them still said that he’s alive so that goes to show that nobody cares about Okouchi’s words. And here’s something else that you all might find interesting, There’s a term for this kind of thing– it’s called “The Death of the Author” and it has its origins in literature. Basically, once an author has finished writing a book, the book stands alone. The author doesn’t go around and tell you about the book. Instead, the interpretation is up to the reader…and the author gets to say whatever he wants to say by writing the book (but he can’t go around and explain it afterwards).In this case, the director had his chance to explain his story by writing and animating the series. However, now that it’s over, the series will speak for itself (through the action of its characters and whatever subtle hints). -The ending will speak for itself.- In other words, one can say that the series can stand alone after the director is done with it and we are all entitled to our interpretation of the ending
November 25th, 2008 at 6:52 am
Biggest Clue;Paper crane:Nunnally taught Lulu to make those in R1. Lulu took it with him as a momento and kept it. Why the hell would CC care about the crane or nunnally? Not to mention the driver had his head DOWN (to conceal his identity). Otherwise the driver would have been looking at the road.
Lelouch is still alive. He has Charles’ Code which he received when the man choked him. The Code activates first when you die, which happened. Charles code got activate when he shot himself the first time, same with C.C. when she was killed by the nun. And before you say can’t have Code and a Geass at the same time, the Code wasn’t the one C.C. had, meaning that Lelouch was the first one to achieve Code Geass. Lelouch’s code also activates when Suzaku stabbed him. Nunnally even gets ‘memory watch’ when he touched Lelouch. It was the similar effects when Leluch touched C.C.’s body back in the cave episode. This pretty much tells us that he really has the code and it is activating to revive him. He’s now traveling the country-side with C.C., living as immortals.
That’s the only reason for C.C. to be suddenly so happy again. Also, before you say that C.C. was just talking to the dead like with Marianne, that’s not true. She could only talk to her because of the nature of her Geass which allowed her to implant herself into the “hearts” of others. That’s how she was able to talk with Marianne. Lelouch’s Geass was entirely different, meaning that she could only have spoken to her if he was there. Another clue, she was not talking to her self is the sheer hatred of his name. I highly doubt she would say his name outloud in a kind manner when a random dude is giving her a ride. he would have just pull over and kicked her out. it dosnt matter what the directors say, facts are facts. he cant retroactivly claim lulu is dead with so many logical plot consistencies saying hes alive.
November 25th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
And Besided, Tanguchi (the director/co-writer) says that the ending is open for interpretation and he didn’t comment on Lulu’s fate and said that it’s open for interpretation and Idk why people are giving Okouchi more credibility than Tanguchi.
December 1st, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Didn’t anyone know that at the ending of Code Geass R2 when C.C. is talking. That the line she said, “Right, Lelouch?” Doesn’t it sound as if she was actaully speaking to him. I’m just pointing out my thoughts of his death. I really don’t think he dead. I think that he made it so it looked like he had died. That he did die but, he had Geass so maybe that gave him another chance at life, and didn’t he tell C.C. that he would be with her always or something along those lines. Would she actually let him die like that? Also, my brother was on youtube and the ending had it show that when C.C. was talking they should Lelouch as the guy moving the horses. Although you can never be sure with youtube. It’s just a thought. I was ballin’ when Lelouch died. I liked the ending but, I like it better having the thought that Lelouch is still alive. =]]
December 1st, 2008 at 12:02 pm
bountyx said it soo much better than i did. =]
December 1st, 2008 at 2:15 pm
BountyX, if I remember C.C can make the Origami cranes as well.
Also Geass-net’s already revealed what she meant if you had what the page said
and finally
OKOUCHI’S THE FUCKING WRITER! HE WROTE AND CREATED CODE GEASS HE WOULD KNOW IF THE MAIN CHARACTER WAS ALIVE!
December 1st, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Also Gurren Lagann wasn’t screwy the dub just chose Littner instead of Rittoner which several fansubs put down.
Also Charles died by the human concious making him dissapear why would Charles want to make the guy killing him happy? Of course he wouldn’t that’s why Okouchi (CREATOR AND WRITER) has stated that Lelouch is dead. Read the interview and its made perfectly clear.
December 2nd, 2008 at 10:28 am
Ppl who say hes dead just b/c okouchi says so cant think 4 themselves & if he really intended 4 lulu 2b dead y didnt he make it COMPLETELY clear in the end of the anime?
December 2nd, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Because Sunrise probably didn’t let him. If Okouchi wanted to leave it open why has he and the staff stated that Lelouch died?
I tend to believe what the writer says because the writer is the person writing it. If he says his dead than his dead.
The last line by C.C meant that her ability to love, and be loved has been restored. She no longer wants to die.
December 3rd, 2008 at 1:25 am
Well most ppl judge the ending not by Okouchis words but by the ambiguity of the anime ending & now ur taking away credibility from Sunrise b/c they r one of the main producers of the anime & keep in mind that the best animes do not just include a good story but a good execution of the story & Sunrise HELPED ALOT with the execution of the story & without Sunrise, Code Geass would be nothing
December 3rd, 2008 at 1:44 am
I completely agree with what Lulu dead ppl hater said, all the most popular animes in Japan (such as Naruto, Bleach, FMA, and of course Geass) is popular not only because of the storyline but the execution of the storyline. For those who watch Naruto/Naruto Shippuden, do you recall the amazing animation between Naruto’s battle with Sasuke and Shikamaru’s battle with Hidan? That’s exactly what makes them so popular and likewise Code Geass had many great animation scenes (especially towards the end of R2) and that’s what earned the series it’s popularity. Well, I wouldn’t really judge an anime by the author’s words because as Lulu dead ppl haters and I mentioned earlier, animes are not judged only by storylines but the animation and execution of the storyline, but mangas on the other hand are related to storylines and therefore the author would have more credibility in that aspect. So in this case, we shouldn’t just rely on Okouchi’s words alone because he is only part of the reason why the anime succeded but we should also consider Sunrise’s opinion as well (although it’s obvious that they believe that Lelouch is alive) because they are the ones who excecuted the anime and if a company such as 4Kids (or whichever company makes the pokemon anime) executes the Code Geass storyline, we would all know it would be a disaster so in that aspect we should also respect Sunrise’s opinions as well. Besides, in the Tanguchi (the co writer) interview, he mentioned that the ending is open for interpretation so if you are the type to only rely on the author’s words you have to decide which one to believe, Tanguchi or Okouchi.
December 3rd, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Most of the staff has stated that Lelouch is dead, I have yet to hear from a single member of the production that has stated that Lelouch is alive. The website Geass-net has stated that Lelouch is dead, and Okouchi has stated that Lelouch is dea
Also Tanaguchi has said the ending not Lelouch’s death. If Taniguchi meant for Code Geass to be ambiguous why not tell Okouchi or the staff this?
December 3rd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
If all the production team says he’s dead why did they make that last scene so ambiguous? Earlier you mentioned it was because Sunrise didn’t let them but isn’t Sunrise the production team?
December 4th, 2008 at 1:04 am
come on ppl U NEED 2 LEARN HOW 2 THINK FOR YOURSELVES INSTEAD ON RELYING ON FUCKING OKOUCHI’S WORDS!!!!!!! there r many unexplained details in this anime & they cant just leave the anime an open end & close the anime in an interview if they wanted 2 conclude the anime w/Lelouchs death they should have made it completely clear in the anime end which they didnt & charred knight ur totally contradicting urself big time & ur analysis would be like saying that Carl Rove is responsible for the economic crisis in America instead of George Bush but Bush is the president, so in this case the anime is left as an OPEN END so anything Okouchi says about it afterwards is meaningless b/c the anime stands for itself
December 4th, 2008 at 7:53 am
but Okouchi wrote and co-created Code Geass. Also Okouchi has stated that NO ONE had a problem with Lelouch dying. If Taniguchi had a problem wouldn’t Okouchi have said so.
Your ignoring Okouchi’s role in Code Geass just to make the ending you want. Not the ending they had in mind.
December 4th, 2008 at 8:09 am
Well Okouchi had a chance 2 make it PERFECTLY clear in the anime but he didnt so the fans have no choice but 2 think about it themselves
December 4th, 2008 at 8:44 am
I agree with Lulu dead ppl hater because Okouchi could have made Lulu’s death perfectly clear by changing C.C.’s last words but he didn’t. Besides, I think that Lulu’s death would ruin the origionality and unpredictiveness of Code Geass because everyone thought he was going to die since the series began so in that aspect that was totally predictable which surprises me because Code Geass is known to be unpredictable, and that’s exactly what made it a great anime. Another thing I would like to point out is that Okouchi only writes the Code Geass manga (which isn’t that popular in Japan) and it’s totally different from the anime so I don’t think Okouchi is the only one who came up with the storyline fot the anime because it differs from the storyline he has in the manga and if “NO ONE” had a problem with Lelouch dying, why did he make that last scene so ambiguous? And why didn’t he elaborate more about Nunnaly’s visions along with C.C.’s words at the end? Not to mention that he also listed Charles as DEAD, so what happened to his code? Unless Okouchi explains more about these areas, majority of the fans (including me) will continue to think that his statement is contradictory to the ending of the anime because those are key points which need to be adressed and if Okouchi truly had all the answers, why didn’t he answer all those unanswered details which were mentioned earlier?
December 4th, 2008 at 8:50 am
charred knight dude u always say that none of the staff had a problem w/lelouch dying but keep in mind that there r times when ppl lie so they can maintain appearances in public; for example in the historic 2008 election John McCain always mentioned that Sarah Palin is getting along well w/everyone but after the election, the McCain campaign confessed that they had many issues w/Sarah Palin so in this case we dont really know if okouchi is honest b/c the last scene of the anime made ppl question whether or not hes alive b/c of c2s words & i am sure that okouchi isn’t that dumb to put a line so vague in the end if he wanted to make lulu’s death COMPLETELY clear
December 4th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Okouchi is the co-creator and writer of Cpde Geass, Tanioguchi helped but Okouchi made perfectly clear that he wrote the ending.
What C.C said at the end has already been explained. C.C had lost the ability to love so when Lelouch cared about her, C.C gained the ability to love. Lelouch showed her that the power of the king does not make you lonely.
I already stated how Charles died, the human unconcious (whatever the hell “God” was) killed him because Lelouch had gained control of it not Charles. It made Charles dissapear Code can’t bring a person back from that.
It’s been stated that Nunnaly’s visions where caused by her magical abilitiy to see inside people’s hearts caused by Charles’ geass.
Okouchi has explained why Lelouch died, and if you remember Lelouch’s opinion of himself (calling himself a demon) than it makes perfect sense.
Also if people secretly had a problem than why has no one spoken up, Taniguchi has not appeared to challenge Okouchi, none of the staff has claimed that Okouchi lied.
December 4th, 2008 at 10:51 am
The nunnay seeing through ppl’s hearts thing is bull shit b/c in R2 ep 23 she held schniezels hand & she couldnt see his heart & not to mention when she held lulu’s hand in season 1 when he promised not 2 lie & the C2 part dosnt make sence wither b/c in reality SHE IS ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 4th, 2008 at 10:53 am
I think I need to get Zongetsu here to talk some sence into Charred Knight -_-
December 4th, 2008 at 11:03 am
And btw about the Nunnaly part, it was not mentioned in the interview above and if you have any evidence of that please give the link and I also think that the C.C. explanation is B.S. because it contradicts her previous actions in R2 ep 21 because now she’s living in the past not the future and she is alone all over again, Zongetsu can elaborate more on the subject when he arrives
December 4th, 2008 at 11:10 am
charred knight dude wat ur taking this discussion in circles, if NOBODY had a problem w/Lulu’s death & they wanted 2 make it 100% clear, y did they make the ending so ambiguous? This is about the 10000000000th time we r bringing this question up
December 4th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Uhh…*yawn* well i gotta admit its been sometime since someone challenged, the statement “Lelouch is alive. So i just want to take personal pride in bating down everyone of your statements.
“Okouchi is the co-creator and writer of Cpde Geass, Tanioguchi helped but Okouchi made perfectly clear that he wrote the ending.”
-Okouchi did indeed say that lelouch was dead during his interview. However he was not very specific on details, it was very vague. I read it fyi. So anyways, Tanaguchi, the directer of this also was interviewed, and he stated that, it is up to the people to decide what they think happened. This absolutely contradicts each others statements. If you want i can provide a link once i find it again… just to throw this out there, but the manga is still going on, its not even close to an ending
“What C.C said at the end has already been explained. C.C had lost the ability to love so when Lelouch cared about her, C.C gained the ability to love. Lelouch showed her that the power of the king does not make you lonely.”
-CC did not lose her ability to love…it was the many lifetimes of torment, and distrust that made her who she is. It was because of her geass, that she never felt any “real” emotions towards people. Sure people “loved” her, but it wasnt real, it was an illusion one that soon became a reality. How do you think she went from being loved to be unable to love. She had to use her own power after she got the code. People dont just fall for you. However with this being said, she eventually detached herself from all humanity, for it caused her only to suffer more. Any friends she would make would die and so the cycle would repeat. This left her alone. CC even said herself that she “isnt human” and has “abandoned all humanity”. Hmm…that last statement you said…”Lelouch showed her that the power of the king does not make you lonely.” is actaully somewhat right, well for me that is. If you listen to CC character song Connect, not only does it say things about the character, but it has KEY phrases such as…
“Our encounter was inevitable”
“Im not alone”
“Your not alone”
These phrases alone show that CC isnt lonely, ntm listening to the rest of the song. Geass didnt make her lonely, nor lelouch. It was the thing that brought them together, it was inevitable. So in the end, shes not alone, and neither is lelouch, they have each other. Lelouch’s wish would be granted, to create a better world nunally could live in, and CCs too, to be loved.
“I already stated how Charles died, the human unconcious (whatever the hell “God” was) killed him because Lelouch had gained control of it not Charles. It made Charles dissapear Code can’t bring a person back from that.”
-Hmm…you have your details out of order here buddy…for one, lelouch did not geass the gods to kill charles…or even take control of it…yeah. If you watch the episode
Charles: And what of it, the ragnarok junction has already begun.
Lelouch: Who knows, I am Zero, the man of miracles.
Charles: geass wont work on me and even others-
Lelouch: But isn’t there someone else?
Charles: Impossible!
Lelouch: that’s right, the world of C is the will of all humans, and humans are not equal, those were both your words. Because they are not equal you know what that means of my powers no?
Charles: Foolish lelouch! The power of kings cannot defeat the gods!
Lelouch: Gods! The Collective unconsciousness! Do not stop the progress of time!
To understand what happened, you must first know how geass and codes work. According to CC, when one posses a certain lvl of geass they gain the ability to kill the one that bestowed power on them. However their are contradictions. For example, Charles was going to take CC’s code however she did not bestow power on him.
How can this be you may ask? If charles can take CC code, why cant Lelouch take charles?
However, to gain the power you must kill the person with the code. “killing” them you most likely
dont have to, for they can die due to a fatal wounds, just as VV and the nun did.
So, now in chronological order of what happened, lelouch geassed the gods “not to stop the progress of time” therefore ruining Charles plan. Charles pissed off, “flew” to lelouch telling him that to deny him would be to accept Schneizels “hell” world. Lelouch however would tell him “BEGONE”. Charles was “killed” this and so was marrianne.
How you ask?
Okay, so for starters, when you have a mature geass (certain lvl of geass) you gain the ability to kill an immortal, or someone with a code. Lelouch geass allowed him to give commands so he was able to by doing so. “BEGONE” was another way of saying die in other words. Thats why he could geass the gods in the first place, he used it 2 seperate times.
The commands were: “Gods! The Collective unconsciousness! Do not stop the progress of time!”
“BEGONE!”
Some of you may still say that Charles had already been geassed, however do you consider the fact that that was during his last lifetime? So that made it possible to “die” again.
“It’s been stated that Nunnaly’s visions where caused by her magical abilitiy to see inside people’s hearts caused by Charles’ geass.”
Nunnally cant see peoples hearts. Someone who is blind and paralyzed waist down cant all of a sudden develope godlike techniques. I trust that this was information that was relayed due to Cecil Gineva, or w/e ever her name is. However, there is no source for this information as ive looked numerous times to find. The reason she can tell if someone is lying is due to the fact of her heightened senses. After all she was only blind for 8 years. If you know anyone who is blind, you should know what i mean.
If you still challenge me on this statement, provide a link to the information.
“Okouchi has explained why Lelouch died, and if you remember Lelouch’s opinion of himself (calling himself a demon) than it makes perfect sense.”
He didnt explain why lelouch died, he just said it was to atone for his sins. I read it…Lelouch said that he would walk the path of carnage, and never turn back. And so he did, he became a demon, however he changed the world for the better. Even so, what is worse than death? That would be eternal life. As most people say, death is the easy way out. This would serve as a better punishment for him, having that he also gained his fathers code. It all makes sense.
“Also if people secretly had a problem than why has no one spoken up, Taniguchi has not appeared to challenge Okouchi, none of the staff has claimed that Okouchi lied.”
Why would they challenge him? It would just cause a big complication of things. However Tanaguchi did, somewhat challenge him by saying the ending was for the viewers to interpret. I on the other hand would challenge him to the death.
But…there is one more challenger to Okouchi’s words, and that itself is the codegeass website. On the correlation chart it still states lelouch as alive. So, it pretty much makes you eat your own statement
http://geass.jp/correlative.html
People who’s picture is faded is listed as dead
People who have black box, red letters, and lit pictures were previously listed as dead, now alive
All others lit pictures are surviving characters
Yes, that is actually the “Official” website
Zongetsu has laid the smack down
any questions concerns feel free to ask me
December 4th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Hmm one last thing i gotta say…i think i was the one who charred the charred knight lol…Burnt?
December 4th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
LOL Zongetsu saves the day once again XPP
December 4th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Let’s start debunking shit
geass.jp has proven wrong in the past as can be seen by the fact that they listed Nunnaly, Sayoko, and Guilford dead. Geass.jp is not run by the staff and is not 100% accurate The better site is geass-net which states that Lelouch is dead, and that Nunnaly has magic powers.
Taniguchi stated that Lelouch’s death is up to the audience? No he didn’t he stated that the ending depends on the viewer. Combined with what Okouchi stated than that means that whether or not Lelouch’s death was happy is up to the fans. Okouchi was quite clear that Lelouch was dead, Taniguchi’s answers was some of the vaguest answers i have ever seen. If you reread Taniguchi and Okouchi’s interview neither contradicts the other.
The paragraph on C.C first claims that C.C did not lose the ability to love, than spends the rest of the paragraph stating that C.C lost the ability to love, and through Lelouch she regained it. This exactly what I just said, and I have no idea why the hell you spent an entire paragraph agreeing with me.
Geassing someone needs to tell them a specific command telling them “Begone” would simply make them leave the area. Not die, also iof I remember right Charles was already dissapearing before he grabbed Lelouch, the part that made Charles die was Lelouch wishing for a a new day.
I already proven you wrong on the Geass.jp by pointing out they where wrong with Nunnaly, Guilford, and Sayoko. Geass.jp is not run by the staff and does not have accurate information, the only information it has comes from the show itself.
December 4th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
By the way its spelled Zangetsu not Zongetsu moron
December 4th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Charred Knight is a tard. LOL
All you can do is quote what other have told you, why dont you use your brain to make a small analysis of anime and come with your own words?
Every one can jump off a cliff if they are told too.
Picking on name spelling is just low low, like very low.
December 4th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Well, the geass.net shows what happened in the show and it wasn’t 100% clear in the ending of the anime that Lelouch is dead so therefore the ending speaks for itself. And Charred Knight, if you have seen the Tanguchi interview why don’t you give a link or something so we can all know that you aren’t making this up and I would like to point out that Zongetsu translated the Japanese text of both interviews so I would like to see how they differ. Btw even in Japan, many ppl are unsure of whether to take Okouchi’s statements as a confirmation so I just wanted to point that out as well
December 5th, 2008 at 1:22 am
I would also like to point out that if Tanguchi gave such a big statement such as Lulu dying, Tanguchi’s words would be spread around the internet right now but people only refer to Okouchi’s words when they mention Lulu’s death. And not to mention that nobody talks about the Tanguchi interview and that’s because he mentioned that the ending is up to the viewers to decide.
December 5th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Okouchi is the head writer of Geass, Geassfan101. But you’re open to assume anything.
December 5th, 2008 at 9:35 am
Well what Zongetsu and I are trying to say is that his explanations were B.S. and there are many loopholes and ambiguities which he didn’t fully answer and that Okouchi had a chance to make his ending 100% clear in the anime but he didn’t so therefore the anime stands for itself
December 5th, 2008 at 11:30 am
How the hell was Okouchi’s explanation B.S
Considering that he was the main writer I would think he knows what Lelouch better than you do
December 5th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Zongetsu already explained that part Charred Knight and we mentioned it in the posts above, you should learn how to read >.>
December 5th, 2008 at 11:39 am
charred knight dude u seriously dont get it if okouchi wanted 2 make it clear that hes dead y was the last few scenes so vague? This is about the 10000000000001 time we brought it up
December 5th, 2008 at 11:40 am
btw nunnaly seeing through ppls hearts it total bull shit along with c2 being happy b/c of the memories with lulu b/c now shes living in the past instead of the future & it contradicts wat she did in r2 ep 21
December 5th, 2008 at 11:46 am
I forgot to mention, Charred Knight, where is your proof of Tanguchi’s words being similar to Okouchi’s? We are still waiting for a link or something to prove it
December 5th, 2008 at 11:53 am
True true…even the official code geass website, geass.jp states he is still alive. That alone interferes with what Okouchi said. Its been like 2 months since it has ended, and it still continues to update, but leaves lelouch as alive.
I didnt agree with you at all in my CC paragraph. To put it in simpler terms, you can lose what you never had. She never knew how to love anything. Think about it,. she was a slave, then she lived a fake reality. However with lelouch she learns how to love. She is also embraced for the first time in her eternal life. As she said in ep 11, this is the first time anyone thanked me for anything…
She also revived some of her “lost” emotions such as jealousy and depression. This is shown by her actions in r2 ep 15, thinking that she isnt cared for anymore, she “willingly” gives her life to the emperor. Yes, even though she is tough on the outside, on the inside shes hurting, this is how first love is, very confusing.
As for begone, it does mean to die, in a way. For example, when you vanquish evil spirits, you dont say die! You say, “spirits begone!” Its like get out of here! Yes, he wanted them gone and so they were.
Geass.jp marked them dead for a reason, if they hadnt, all the time since FlEIA we wouldve known they were alive. It would have ruined the drama when nunnally appeared again. We all thought she was dead, but she wasnt…thats why she’s marked as alive now…
btw…i spelled it as zongetsu on purpose. How many other users do you think have the name zangetsu?
I was the first one to use zongetsu, ever since the edition with him first came out. I like usernames with no numbers…
December 5th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Geass.jp is run by biglobe and not by the staff that’s why you don’t see any extra information. The Geass-net is a much more accurate website.
Why did Okouchi leave it vague? Since I am not Okouchi I don’t know, but remembering what happened with Char’s Counterattack my feelings is that the studio, and sponsors wanted Okouchi to leave it vague against his will. From the interviews its clear that Okouchi wanted Lelouch to die, and the staff felt the same way, the executives at Bandai most likely wanted Lelouch alive to have more sequels. Okouchi revolts by making a vague ending in the anime but confirms Lelouch’s death in interviews. That’s what happened with CCA, Tomino wanted Amuro and Char to die, but Sunrise had him leave it vague so that they could make sequels. They thankfully never did, and most people consider Amuro and Char having died during CCA.
Is Taniguchi and Okouchi’s interviews similar? No, but they don’t contradict, Taniguchi never said that Lelouch’s death was up for debate, he said the ending was. Since the main character dying would be something that Taniguchi and Okouchi would talk about, Taniguchi must have known that Okouchi would state that Lelouch was dead. Taniguchi said nothing which makes me believe his deffering to Okouchi on this.
Zongetsu is a meaningless name, Zan means cutting and getsu means moon what the hell does Zon mean.
December 5th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Err.. Not to intrude in on the conversation, but in the interview with Okouchi, does he just refer to Lelouch dying or Lelouch Vi Britannia dying? I mean, I am pretty sure you guys didn’t over look this, but I thought it would be some nice fodder for fresh discussion. The reason for the name’s importance is because, in Lelouch’s mind at least, Vi Britannia and Lamperouge are separate (As commented by him when Rolo dies).
Or maybe Okouchi just didn’t want his character raped for profit. I mean, imagine how it would feel to have built up to that epic moment and have the entire cast (Short of C.C.) thinking he is dead, just to reintroduce him back to them and cause havoc mearly by living. So telling everyone Lelouch was dead would prevent them from starting an R3 and raping Lelouch’s character, even if their original idea was alive or vague-ish.
Just had to toss out my two cents.
December 5th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
He used lelouch.
He stated that lelouch died for the price of a new world. He also gave several other reasons such as Lelouch wanting to atone for the use of geass, and the fact that in Lelouch’s pride he wanted to show that he was willing to die for his cause.
December 5th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Charred knight, where’s the link to the Tanguchi interview?
December 6th, 2008 at 12:37 am
okouchi said 4 c2’s explanation that “With the realization of the Zero Requiem, her time with Lelouch, who was able to forgive and accept her, came to an end, but the memories created with him, without doubt, saved her from eternal loneliness.” but that makes no sence 2 me b/c if the 1 who saved her is DEAD how can she possibly b happy & she’s lonely in reality which is totally contradictory of what lulu wanted 2 do as well & 2nd of all where the fuck did you find out about nunnaly’s ability 2 see through ppl’s hearts? I couldnt find that anywhere & also okouchi said “If you were to think of that as his pride, then I think his getting shot (killed) in the end was a logical end” notice he said IF so that is another piece of evidence that he wants ppl 2 think wat they want as far as lulu’s pride is concerned & he even mentioned that the final ep went according 2 plan (which we all know is vague in the end) so wat charred knight dude just said about bandai not letting okouchi execute his vision is false even based on his interview, so wat do u have 2 say now charred knight?
December 6th, 2008 at 1:03 am
& I forgot 2 mention something about this quote “She talks about how the Geass is supposed to bring loneliness, yet Lelouch proves this wrong. With the knowledge that Lelouch does not hate her for giving him the Geass, she is now able to express her true feelings.” i also find that contradictory b/c C2 never had a problem expressing her feelings in the 1st place mostly b/c she never had any & as far as the anime is concerned she was never hiding her true feelings in the 1st plase so where the hell did this bull shit come from? & how does lulu prove the power of kings dosnt bring solitude? From the beginning she said the power of kings would bring HIM solitude not the WORLD & ik some idiots will say that he’s in heaven w/shirley, euphy & rolo but if u were 2 put it that way ALL the geass users would have a happy ending b/c they ALL DIED b/c of the curse of geass. Lulu uniting the world dosnt mean he proved that geass dosnt bring loneliness b/c even though nunnaly was with him when he died he still died ALONE & lets not 4get that lulu was affected by the curse of geass throught the 2nd season b/c he lost his comerades, his ashford academy friends, shirley, kallen, & at 1 point he even lost C2 so if u ask me he didnt prove that geass dosnt bring loneliness & that statements contradicts the part when C2 said “as a price of casting geass, you…” If u think he was able 2 overcome the solitude of geass by having some1 (in this case nunnaly) beside him when he died then that still dosnt count b/c if u notice closely ALL of the geass users except Bismarck died w/some1 at their side. My point is that okouchi’s words are bull shit b/c lulu didnt prove that the power of geass dosnt bring loneliness & in my opinion he has no right to just go on & add on to an anime in meetings by taking away the viewers rights 2 interpret everything about the ending, I believe that the anime was an open end & okouchi cant do anything about it b/c THE CODE GEASS ANIME IS OVER & IT STANDS FOR ITSELF, REGARDLESS OF WHAT HE SAYS, HE HAD HIS CHANCE 2 EXPLAIN THINGS IN THE ANIME!!!! & i have some more advice 4 our good friend mr fucked up charred knight: LEARN HOW TO THINK!!! AND THIS GOES 4 ANYONE ELSE WHO JUST GOES BY WHAT OKOUCHI SAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 6th, 2008 at 1:24 am
I agree with the statements that Lulu dead ppl hater made, another reason why Okouchi’s words are B.S. is because those statements about C.C. and Nunnally didn’t make sence and they are out of context from the anime because there wasn’t really any evidence of Nunnaly seeing through people’s hearts. In R2 ep 15, she asked to hold Mrs. Romayer’s hand, and then she told her to change the plans, well I think it was obvious to anyone that Romayer is a bitch and even without holding her hand Nunnaly doubted her from the very beginning, I would call that an intuition not an ability to see through people’s hearts. And my main question for that statement is if Nunnaly can truly see through people’s hearts why wasn’t she able to see through Schniezel’s heart in R2 ep 23 when she asked him about the Pendragon Citizens dying? And why wasn’t she able to detect Lulu’s true objectives until the very end? I would think that if she truly had such an extrordinary power such as that, it would have been there for a long time but in season 1 there is not even a hint of her seeing through people’s hearts and now after a 1 year timekip she gained that special power? There is no way that she could just develop such a skill in a 1 year timeskip and if she did, then she would have known that Brittania is using her this whole time. Although some might say she was starting to doubt Brittania somewhat in R2 ep 15, but if that’s the case then she wouldn’t have joined Schniezel in the end. Furthermore, as far as Okouchi’s statements about Nunnaly and C.C. are concerned, I think he was just looking for excuses because he knew that many people would be idiots and just nod their heads instead of referring back to events of the anime. I personally think that Okouchi wants to test us by giving random statements in order for us to go back and challenge him on it; because it proves that there are many people who actually reflected on the anime and it shows the amount of impact the anime had on the viewers.
December 6th, 2008 at 6:12 am
Hmn, thought so. Oh well. I personally believe he is alive, but it isn’t like it matters. We aren’t going to be seeing Code Geass 3: The Magical Orange Transportation Cart Adventure of C.C. & Lelouch anytime soon, if ever (Thank god). The rest of the CG story will be made by the fans, or in a future series set like a few hundred years after the end of R2. Now if only I could find some fanfic that goes along with my thoughts (Go go Luluharem reconstruction!).
And Nunnally’s ability to magically see hearts is bullshit. You can tell if someone is lying by their pulse rate, breathing, and tone of voice. If you couldn’t, we would not have lie detectors. It is simply that she has been blind for such a long time she has become essentially a human lie detector. I could tell the first time she did that <.<.
December 6th, 2008 at 7:44 am
Haha…making fun of my name once again…so, what makes your name so special? Charred knight…that means youre a knight who got burnt wow…
Just to say, you can atone for your sins in more than one way than dying. Each person, lelouch and suzaku atoned for their sins in different ways. Lelouch changed the world for the better, while suzaku was left to watch over. However to accomplish this, certain things would need to be denied…such as their identities.
Its just as lelouch said, once you walk the path of carnage you cannot turn back. If you did, anything lost would be sacrificed for nothing.
December 6th, 2008 at 8:35 am
Ai ai ai, what will the worlds be without Mr. Himura Kenshin? He atoned his sins in a very interesting way, I do believe it is the Japanese way.
Also as some one else mentioned, C.C. last words contradict the reality, the reality that she was left all on her own and Lelouch was dead all on his own. No wait, he was together with hundreds of other people he killed before he passed away. What a happy company, I bet thus guys will be more then happy to see Zero again.
If you dont know the meaning of word solitude, go to http://www.rhymezone.com/ and find definitions.
As for the words by the writer and director, its simple. A surprise wont be a surprise if it is obvious. That why if they can get as many people believing Lelouch is dead, then so many people will drop their jaws when they see him alive.
The hard core fans will be jumping up and down of happiness.
December 6th, 2008 at 9:01 am
The mistake you are making is that C.C’s life revolved around Lelouch. It did not, lelouch showed here that people could care about her, and that she was human, it did not mean that ONLY Lelouch could do that. That’s what Okouchi meant when he wrote that line.
So your statements have changed from Okouchi is a no-nothing to Okouchi is lying? I don’t think I have ever seen an interview where the person being interviewed lied his ass off the entire time. Okouchi has stated that their is no plans for a third season, he has stated that Lelouch is dead, why would he have an interview where he just lied for the entire time.
If he didn’t want to do the interview he could have said no.
December 6th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Read moar teen gossip and celebrity magazines. Perhaps he wanted the money you get for agreeing to do an interview (90% of the time). If you believe an interview is the ultimate truth then good god man. I bet with a nice chunk of cash he’d go back and work on a season 3. Hopefully it won’t be done by a Japanese equivalent of 4kids. Or else then we’d have the magical orange cart adventure… Or Lelouch making a cameo in like Pokemon with Team Rocket (OBEY ME PIKACHU!)
But I have gone so far off-topic from what I am trying to say. I’ll stop now.
December 6th, 2008 at 10:00 am
Charred Knight, we aren’t saying that Okouchi is “lying” we are saying that Okouchi’s statements are inconsistent with the events that happened in the anime and let’s not forget that the only one who cared about C.C. throught the entire series is Lelouch!! C.C. never really talked to any other character in the series so as far as the anime is concerned C.C.’s life DID revolve around Lelouch because she is the one who took away her loneliness but even when she was with Lelouch, there were many people (particullarly the Black Knights) who didn’t really like C.C.’s involvement at all, I don’t remember Lulu proving to C.C. that “people can love her” he proved that she’s not alone because she will always have him by her side, but I guess KallenxLulu supporters and ShirleyxLulu supporters wouldn’t agree with this statement or rather they refuse to this statement (which I understand is most ppl in this forum) but even then, you can’t deny the Nunnaly seeing through people’s hearts as B.S. because if she did it would have been there since season 1 and there is no way she can gain such a strong skill in a one year timeskip. Btw, JustAnotherCGFan Says has a very good point, some people who appear in interviews get paid tons of money to say certain things, take Fox News for example, everyone who goes there gets paid for saying things which they don’t believe in, the media is bias in that sence but of course they would never say that in public so for all we know the Okouchi interview could have been the same because you would be surprised by how much money people in interviews get paid to say certain things and obviously he would want to have some money because he’s going to be away from screentime for a while in order to complete the 3 Code Geass mangas.
December 6th, 2008 at 10:32 am
CC life didnt revolve around lelouch. He was merely part of her experience, her final experience. Before he came, she was “dead” inside. She was living alone in the world, everyone disappeared, their lives were like a blink of an eye to her. That is why she isolated herself from people for when you get close to someone and they die, like all humans will, its painful. She has indeed felt this numerous times in her life. (think of all the people she contracted with)
Her life was hell, she wanted to end it, end that experience of never dying. Its not like she could commit suicide…she’d just come back to life. She would never die, being imprisoned on earth forever.
If geass was like wishes, then her geass was to be loved…that was her true wish. However throughout time, with the code, she has covered that wish with another. That was to die. There was no way she could love anyone because they would die, and a life without the one you love is meaning less. CC realized this. Why, and ill say once again, do you think she detached herself from all human feelings? Its because she didnt want to be hurt.
In r2 ep 15, she clearly shows that she really didnt want to die after all…yeah why would she deny the emperor as he was about to grant her “wish”? Yes, it was a very dramatic scene…as the emperor grabbed her, and said
“Watch from where you are Lelouch”
CC gave him a look that clearly said
“Farewell Lelouch”
It was due to lelouch’s promise of a brighter tommorow for her. Even though he said it in weird terms its still effective.
“Dont die with that kind of face! At least smile as you die!…Ill make you smile dammit So-!”
Now when i read that, i basically read it as, dont die unhappy! at least be happy as you die, Ill make you happy dammit! Yes, it doesnt take a genius to figure that smiling is a sign of happiness, and clearly CC was unhappy at the moment. He pretty much said “Ill make you happy! dont die!” but his pride is too big for him to say something like that.
Yes, sorry if i repeated anything above, i just dont feel the need to go back, cuz i know it by heart and dont feel like reading it again…
So, if CC was thanked by lelouch for the first time, think of how many first times he has done to her?? (Haha…first time =3)
Listen to her character songs…youll understand her feelings, see the transition from the first one, Reincarnation to her second, Connect.
Everything, and i mean EVERYTHING is connected to one another, even the character songs… ill just explain it…
In CC’s song reincarnation she talks of how she felt love however, lelouch is disappearing…he’s dying. I think this refers to him being captured, and in a sense “dying” for he had forgotten who he was. In other terms “dying”. However she continues to say, what did i lose for this eternal love? The path of tomorrow continues to revolve, it cannot be stopped. I killed my feelings hid my expressions…Im gonna miss you…duh, she didnt see him for an entire year…
so continuing she says she can be reborn and overcome space and time to meet him again. She does this because she is crushed at the end of ep 25 s1. She comes back to meet him one year later. Starting to see how this connects?
And then comes her song Connect…
the lyrics are self explanatory
You can’t see ahead, you can’t read tomorrow
Your face from the side looks distressed
Searching for the answer, your heart is withering
You hide your weakness, too
It’s okay even if you cry softly
Remove your mask of bravado
Because on a night with only the two of us, I’ll accept you
You’re not alone
I’m embracing you with my heart
Spreading my wings that envelop you
Even when the times are good, even when it’s not so
I’m by your side
Everything is cold to you
And the dark night seems to be endless
Nevertheless, because the beginning will take place, I’m always watching you
Because even when we’re able to understand or oppose each other
I’m supporting you
I’ll promise you, you may believe in me
Our encounter was inevitable
You softly and tenderly
Wiped away my teardrops
Because your clumsy fingers are warm
I’m not alone
If you would overtake yesterday’s dream
And stand still somewhere
Then close your eyes and feel me
I’m by your side
Because even if the season when the two of us
Will be walking on separate paths comes someday
I’ll become the wind connecting the remote starry sky
It’s okay even if you cry softly
Remove your mask of bravado
Because on a night with only the two of us, I’ll accept you
You’re not alone
I’m embracing you with my heart
Spreading my wings that envelop you
Even when the times are good, even when it’s not so
I’m by your side
Everything is cold to you
And the dark night seems to be endless
Nevertheless, because the beginning will take place, I’m always watching you
As i said before, CC’s life did not revolve around Lelouch, but he was the final part of her “experience”. Living on nothing but the power of “others” she learned to live on her own power, you arent alive because you have life.
December 6th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
How is Lelouch dying inconsistent with the anime? He got impaled by a large sword, and then died from a massive sword wound. The other stuff have been explained like Nunnaly having magical powers, and C.C talking about how she now feels human.
If Okouchi was paid for lying, he would get paid for claiming Lelouch is alive. Sunrise doesn’t want to risk pissing off people like you, Okouchi made those statements by himself.
I am not saying that Okouchi can’t change his mind and write a third season or an OAV with Lelouch in it, I am just saying that from Okouchi’s statements Lelouch is dead.
December 6th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
My biggest fear is that Okouchi is going to go where the money is and make some god awful OVA sequel like Mai Otome Zwei, and just make an entire OVA with almost no plot and numerous scenes of fanservice.
December 6th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Well, that’s where we were getting at by saying Nunnaly seeing through people’s hearts is B.S. there is no logical explanation of why she was able to see Lulu’s abilities except the possibility of him gaining the code and I believe that Zongetsu , he’s now Zero so it’s about the same with Lelouch and let’s not forget he said “I will gambelaborated deeply about this in one of his previous posts and what we are trying to say is that Lelouch vi Brittania DID die but now he’s no longer Lelouch vi Brittania just like Suzaku is no longer Suzakule on the geass known as peoples wishes.” and notice he said GAMBLE and in R2 ep 21 he and Suzaku said “To desire a result, one must take action, the method one chooses will lead to the denial of other things.” And so the life, the existence of Lelouch Lamperouge/Lelouch vi Britannia was denied in this case but now he’s no longer Lelouch vi Brittania he is now an immortal who no longer wears a mask and has no identity, just like C.C., we can elaborate on this topic more if you want
(PS: I give credit to Zongetsu for the last two sentences)
December 6th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Well, that’s where we were getting at by saying Nunnaly seeing through people’s hearts is B.S. there is no logical explanation of why she was able to see Lulu’s abilities except the possibility of him gaining the code and I believe that Zongetsu elaborated deeply about it in one of his previous posts , he’s now Zero what we are trying to say is that Lelouch vi Brittania DID die but now he’s no longer Lelouch vi Brittania just like Suzaku is no longer Suzaku, he’s now Zero and the same thing can be said about Lelouch, let’s not forget Lelouch said “I will gamble on the Geass known as the people’s wishes” and notice he said GAMBLE so in R2 ep 21 he and Suzaku said “To desire a result, one must take action, the method one chooses will lead to the denial of other things.” And so the life, the existence of Lelouch Lamperouge/Lelouch vi Britannia was denied in this case but now he’s no longer Lelouch vi Brittania he is now an immortal who no longer wears a mask and has no identity, just like C.C., we can elaborate on this topic more if you want
(PS: I give credit to Zongetsu for the last two sentences and sorry for the typos on the previous post -_-)
December 6th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
and…i said we dont care about what Okouchi said…
link needed to see character profiles please!
December 6th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
You don’t give a crap about what the person who created Code Geass thinks?
Also its quite clear that Okouchi isn’t beating around the bush, he has stated that Lelouch died, but Suzaku did not.
Since I don’t have the actual interview with me he states something like
it will be up to Suzakuk, Nunnaly, and Kallen to rebuild the world since Lelouch died.
December 6th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Kallen’s role in reconstruction is hilariously minor. All she does is remain part of the Black Knights and continues to be the police force of the UFN.
I prefer to think that Lelouch is alive for another reason. Considering how massively intelligent he is, do you really think he would plan his complete and total death knowing that in a few hundred years or so the system will be corrupt and war will just begin anew and things would be back to normal? I think not. Why would he waste his time and life? Hell, if you really want a stretch think of Lelouch getting Charles’ code, giving Suzaku a Geass ability with it, letting Suzaku master it (There is a two month lull, after all), then with his death he transfers the code to Suzaku making Suzaku immortal while putting him under what Lelouch said (Along the lines of “You will sacrifice all your own happiness for the world… Eternally…” which sounds a lot like how the power of kings strips away your feelings and leaves you in solitude :\)
But that is a stretch, even for me.
December 6th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
I doubt it will take so long as few hundred years.
Charred Knight, it is you who dont give a crap about what the person who created CG thinks, you are an idiot. Because that person CREATED the universe of CG, he DID ALL THE THINGS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.
It might sound like wield imagination, but it isnt, we just look at things that we see in anime and think of what it might mean. Just like analizing a poem or novel or an article. You read and then you try to figure out if there is A SECOND MEANING behind the words. Duh, baka.
Charred Knight, you are a retard and as a retard, you are unable to think clearly, there for you cling to what Okouchi says as if his words is the holly bible.
December 7th, 2008 at 1:09 am
i completely agree w/zingfreelancer, charred knight dude as i said 10000000 times, U NEED TO LEARN HOW TO FUCKING THINK FOR YOURSELF INSTEAD OF RELYING ON OKOUCHI’S WORDS!!!!!! If u watch the anime closely again u will find that some of his statements r out of context w/the anime & like we said 10000000000000 times if okouchi wanted 2 make lulu’s death 100% clear he should have changed the last few scenes of the anime but he didnt & in the interview he even said the finale ep went according 2 plan, so my point is that he can’t just leave an open end for an anime & just continue the story in an interview b/c he had his chance 2 explain EVERYTHING in the anime & ik ur goin 2 say that sunrise didnt let him or shit like that but that dosnt change the fact that THE ANIME STANDS FOR ITSELF REGARDLESS OF WHAT HE SAYS AT THIS POINT!!! AND ALL THE EVIDENCE THAT WE ARE PROVIDING IS FROM THE ANIME ITSELF SO GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD YOU DUMBASS KNIGHT & LEARN HOW 2 THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 7th, 2008 at 1:39 am
I wouldn’t say that Lulu getting Charles’ code is a stretch because in R2 episode 15, Charles said “Defeat me and you shall be the successor of the Power of Kings” (or something like that) and it basically means that if you defeat a person with the code, you will gain the code. In this case, Lulu defeated Charles by geassing the collective consiousness or the Gods so therefore he now holds the power of the kings as mentioned in the quote that Charles gave. Btw as I have mentioned many times, the reason why we think the Okouchi interview is B.S. is he said a few things which were a stretch, for instance the Nunnaly and C.C. explanations. The anime had barely any evidence of Nunnaly seeing through people’s hearts and like I said before there is no way she could have gained such an extraordinary ability in a one year timekip unless she had geass which in the anime she dosn’t. And we already mentioned in the previous posts about why the C.C. explanation is B.S. as well. If you actually watch the anime closely, it will be obvious that Nunnaly can’t see through people’s hearts and that C.C. would never be happy unless Lulu is with her, but I understand that many ppl who think he’s dead are KallenxLulu fans or ShirleyxLulu fans so I know we might not agree about the C.C. part but you can’t deny that there is no way she would be happy in the end if she was all alone. Even if you don’t agree with the C.C. part, you can’t deny that there is not any proof that Nunnaly has that magical ability to see through people’s hearts because if she did she wouldn’t have known that Brittania was using her this whole time and she would have known that Schniezel DID kill the Pendragon Citizens. You can’t deny that some of Okouchi’s statements were a stretch and he didn’t mention anything about Jeremiah, who seemed unusually happy when Lulu died. We all know that he wasn’t one of the people who wanted to turn against Lulu because he admired Marianne greatly and he vowed to serve the Royal Family and of course some might say that he was happy because Lulu’s wishes came true and I have 2 responses to that statement, first of all, knowing Jeremiah’s character he would at least show some emotion considering he had alot of trouble controlling his emotions in the end of the first season (when Bartley customised him, and that’s what Bartley even mentioned that Jeremiah has a problem controlling his emotions) and in season 2 we find out that the reason is because he was traumatized by Marianne’s death because he admired her and he even said “My master isn’t V.V. but Marianne” Well perhaps he was able to forgive himself by serving Lelouch but my second point is, why the hell would Jeremaih be in an orange farm when his job is to serve the royal family? We all know sure that Lulu would want him to be beside Zero to protect Nunnaly but instead he’s growing oranges? That sounds kinda fishy to me, and that could also imply that his duties to Lulu might not be over yet. Another point is that he knew almost everything about geass and how to counter it and I am sure that V.V. told him about the code as well so it would only be logical if he knew or at least suspected that Lelouch has obtained a code and I don’t think Okouchi even mentioned Jeremiah at all in his explanation so I just wanted to point out another small piece of evidence.
December 7th, 2008 at 1:43 am
Btw, as I mentioned before, I think Okouchi is testing us by giving us false evidence for us (the fans) to prove him because it will prove how much impact his anime had on the people and how much the people actually reflected on this anime because if you reflect very closely on the anime and consider every event that happened, you can find some loopholes in Okouchi’s statements.
December 7th, 2008 at 4:06 am
Well, everyone keeps on talking about geass-net or w/e but ive never actually found the actual website. Seriously, it doesnt exist.
and yes i dont care about what okouchi said, if i really cared that much i would believe everything i read/listen to. Just like the national enquirer I totally believe that. (sarcasm)
December 7th, 2008 at 6:45 am
You can go to Sunrise website, in a section there you will find links to all official geass websites or simply visit wikipedia and check there.
If Nunnally was to obtain geass, it would most likely be the geass of seing trough peoples lies. But since we never been told it clearly, there is no solid evidence. Unless interview states this, but as far as I have seen, it does not.
December 7th, 2008 at 8:41 am
Didn’t I already explain how she could detect lies? That is why Suzaku didn’t grab her hand in one episode (I forget which one..)
December 7th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Well why didn’t she detect Schniezel’s lies when she held his hand in R2 ep 23? And why didn’t she realize sooner about Lulu’s lies in the first season? There is no way she can gain such an ability in a 1 year timeskip unless she has geass which she dosn’t or at least not in the anime and I believe we addressed this multiple times as well
December 7th, 2008 at 9:24 am
And I forgot to mention that Nunnaly DID hold Lulu’s hand in the first season but she didn’t even think he was lying and if she had the ability to see through people’s hearts and lies she would have realized that he was Zero much sooner than she did and she wouldn’t have joined Brittania
December 7th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Did you forget what he said in his mind?
“I will never lie”
“At least not to you”
And I don’t believe they held hands. Let me go check that..
Wrong. He was holding onto the arm of the chair.
As illustrated in this beautiful picture I made.
http://i38.tinypic.com/j8mxrc.jpg
It shows the outside of Damocles when he lies, but before then you can see his hand is on the armchair.
December 7th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Well, that still dosn’t prove that she can see through people’s hearts. I would say that what happened in R2 ep 15 is an intuition, she already doubted Suzaku and Romayer from the begining judging by the tone of their voices and in R1 ep 6 she wasn’t able to see Suzaku’s inner sadness when she held his hand (yes, he did hold her hand) And whose side are you on anyways?
December 7th, 2008 at 10:24 am
I am on the side that says Nunnally can’t see people’s hearts and Lelouch is alive, but using the name L.L. and traveling with C.C. :\
December 7th, 2008 at 10:31 am
I apologize if I sounded rude, I was just confused for a second well anyways I remember Lulu holding her hand in R1 when he promised that he won’t change in ep 12 of the first season but still there is a huge difference between seeing through lies and seeing through people’s hearts and the strange thing about R2 ep 25 is that there were flashbacks when she touched Lulu’s hand (which didn’t happen when she held Romayer’s hand) so if she could see through his heart or lies, there would be no need for the flashbacks
December 7th, 2008 at 10:37 am
No worries, you didn’t sound rude. I am just saying my best guess as to why she could tell if people were lying was if she could half-emulate a lie detector by using her senses that had been heightened since she didn’t use her eyes. It beats magical ability.
And I have no idea what was with the flashbacks. Some people think it is because a person with the ability to use Geass (Nunnally) touched someone with a Code (Lelouch), but I honestly don’t believe that. Maybe it has something to do with the Code starting, since it doesn’t work until you die the first time.
But really I can’t even come up with a good idea as to why she could see the memories of what he had planned to do.
December 7th, 2008 at 11:14 am
That’s exactly the point Zongetsu and I are trying to make, the only logical explanation for those flashbacks is if Lulu gained the code, and we can all agree that the Code Geass anime never shows random flashbacks unless it has significance
December 7th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Plus the fact C.C. would just get lonely again and forget about Lelouch like she does everything after a few hundred years. So she’d still live in solitude. Which makes her words at the end kind of pointless unless Lelouch is alive. And if he has a Code to live with her forever. I can imagine they wouldn’t give the power of the Geass to anyone in a loooong time. To help keep the stability of the world I can also imagine Lelouch donning the mask of Zero when the political system becomes corrupt. It makes for a nice ending in my mind. A few cosmetic changes and then Lelouch bringing the hatred of the world on himself again then getting killed to save the world for a bit longer. Heroic.
December 7th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Zing Freelancer, I pity you I really do
With Okouchi revealing the truth about Lelouch all you can do is deny Okouchi, deny that he created Code Geass, deny that he wrote Code Geass. Clearly Okouchi must be wrong, clearly Okouchi can’t be telling the truth. Is Okouchi the holy bible? No, but Okouchi was one of the two main creators of Code Geass, and did write the entire series with Lelouch dying in the forefront.
So when you can’t prove me wrong you call me a retard. I never said Lelouch can’t come back to life, but knowing Sunrise’s past I can’t imagine them making a sequel to Code Geass without Okouchi, so unless Okouchi changes his mind then Lelouch is dead.
I don’t care that you call me a retard because I know how much it hurts to lose an anime character you like, so I really know what your going through. I lash out at people when I am in pain too. I just hope that you can come to terms with this loss.
December 7th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
They are three logical answers
1. Lelouch has code. Okouchi has denied this by stating that Lelouch is dead. Considering that Okouchi wrote the final episode with Lelouch dying in mind than unless Okouchi changes his mind or Sunrise decides to screw Okouchi and write a third season without him than Lelouch doesn’t have code. I don’t know how you can deny the words of the Scenario writer himself.
2. Nunnaly has magical powers as stated by Geass-net, which is generally considered the best Offficial Code Geass site, since if I remember correctly Geass.jp hasn’t even updated Kallen’s page since Episode 18.
3. Its an artistic choice to show that Nunnaly understands what happened, and Nunnaly never saw the flashbacks. From what I have seen most people are going with this one or the second one.
December 7th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
The third is the one I’d have to pick between two and three. Two is just too much of a writer’s conviance or something like that.
And he could do what I do an write fan fiction of what he wants to happen, or just read someone else’s. There are quite a few good ones that portray the characters well out there. Just, please god, no more “The world was coming to terms with Lelouch’s actions and sacrifice.”. That makes NO sense. He didn’t want people to know why he was dying or else the anger and hatred wouldn’t have been centered on him! Lelouch was destined to be hated for eternity.
Tch. I hope there is a season 3 that is a hunredish years or so into the future. It can even be without C.C. and Lelouch. Maybe just a small cameo of a green-haired girl and a purple-eyed man giving a character a cart ride after a battle. They deserve some time off from fixing the world.
December 8th, 2008 at 12:26 am
Well, as I mentioned before, Code Geass isn’t really the type of show which just puts in random flashbacks for no reason and that’s another contradiction that I found in Okouchi’s explanation other than the C.C. part, and if Nunnaly had magical powers which can see through people’s hearts or whatever she wouldn’t have joined Brittania and Charred Knight, would you mind showing us that site you were talking about? I believe this is about the hundreth time we are asking for it, without proof your statements are pointless
December 8th, 2008 at 12:31 am
charred knight dude, does the word THINK have any significance 2u? Ur basically relying on sites 2 prove ur point while every1 else is using evidence from the ANIME 2 prove it so IF U WANT 2 MAKE A POINT START USING EXAMPLES FROM THE ANIME INSTEAD OF RELYING ON SOME B.S. SITES WHICH CONTRADICT THE ANIME!!!!!! All u can do is list some sites b/c u cant provide any anime evidence 2 prove the others wrong b/c THERE IS NO EVIDENCE IN THE ANIME THAT CORRELATES WITH OKOUCHI’S WORDS!!!!!!!!
December 8th, 2008 at 12:42 am
Now you start sounding more like an intelligent person
Dont you think that calling some one a tard a few times brings out the intelligent part out?
It is impossible to deny what the writer have told us, but since you are bringing the second character of not lesser importance, I would like to remind that this person do wish to keep an open mind on the aspect of Lelouch last actions.
How ever, both of them have always agreed to one thing, the end and the beginning of the anime. How ever, both of them have a different vision of the future?
As I said, you cant deny that interview, but you dont have to believe it nor take it for a solid conclusion. Put aside the fact that geass net is a myth and not a single soul have dared to post a link, hiding behind a fact that it is a site you can only surf on from a mobile phone in Japane?
That just a completely new level of weird. But can be explained, since they are showing the same anime in the US, perhaps they want to hid the fact so the viewers wont be spoiled by accident?
But that sound like total bullshit to me, since there is plenty of forumes and other websites that can provide more then sufficient information. Putting that aside.
I wish to point out what made this anime so unique to me, is the ability to surprise, with its countless twists and turns. Surely if there is a plan to continue working on Geass franchise, the producers might want to reserve as many pranks as possible beforehand.
I might be wrong or I might be mixing anime’s, but I do believe that C.C. in one or another episode referred to herself as being dead but yet alive. Give this words a little thought.
December 8th, 2008 at 1:02 am
I would like to make a comment about Charred Knight’s words of caring about Okouchi’s words, well just the other day I was looking through thousands of forums and all but one still says that Lelouch is alve despite Okouchi’s words so the point is that MOST PEOPLE don’t give a damn about Okouchi’s words because he had his chance to explain it clearly in the anime but he chose not to by putting in the flashback scenes when Lulu touched Nunnaly, making Jeremiah unusually happy, and not to mention making C.C.’s last line a question but as I mentioned before, you can still gather alot of evidence from the other episodes to prove that he’s alive with Charles’ code and Zongetsu pointed out some of them. So, my point is that at the end of the day the anime stands for itself and it’s too late for Okouchi to change the anime, you know what they say actions speak louder than words and in this case the majority thinks that the anime speaks out for itself regardless of Okouchi’s words, but I guess that aspect depends on your point of view and I understand that some people don’t want to go back and think about all the evnts that have happened. But if you ask me, I think that the ones who have gathered evidence here to prove that he’s alive show that they can think for themselves as oppossed to people who just rely on someone else’s words. It’s true that Okouchi is the writer of Code Geass but the anime wasn’t entirely his creation and that’s an obvious fact if you read the Code Geass manga and what we are making an arguement about is the CODE GEASS ANIME NOT THE CODE GEASS MANGA, and the ending of the anime was ambiguous and words aren’t enough to clear the amount of ambiguity that this series had. However, there is clear evidence that can prove that he recieved Charles’ code and btw the only thing Okouchi said is that “Lelouch vi Brittania” is dead but now that Lulu is an immortal with the code, he no longer bears the name “Lelouch vi Brittania” I know this thought process may be confusing to some people depending on their beliefs in reincarnation or something of that nature but the people who do have a high level of thinking are able to comrehend this without any confusion whatsoever. I guess at the end of the day the Lulu dead or alive case depends on whether or not you think it’s appropriate for the author to tell the ending of an anime after the anime ends ambiguously but like I said before I personally have more respect for those who believe he’s alive because they are the ones who are actually reflecting on the series and gathering evidence from the anime to prove their points while those who believe he’s dead are relying on words alone.
December 8th, 2008 at 1:12 am
Btw sorry if I sounded harsh in that previous statement, I don’t mean to cause any harm
December 15th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
I agree with Geassfan101, especially since the title of the show already proves hes an immortal : Code Geass : Lelouch of the Rebellion R2
Lelouch is the only one able to obtain both Code and Geass, and R2 is the same as C2, Lelouch’s L is actually a R in japanese, so R2=Lelouch Lamperouge as in wiki : (ルルーシュ・ランペルージ, Rurūshu Ranperūji?)
If the creator actually lied about his death…maybe theres a surprise waiting for us , OVA, season 3 or something…i hope so, and i will never believe in a great hero’s death
December 16th, 2008 at 12:35 am
Here’s another interesting detail that I recently found out, it seems like the creators intended to kill Jeremiah in season 1 episode 10 but they brought him back due to his popularity. So, it goes to show that even the creators of Geass can change their minds for the sake of the fans. I read this info in by looking in Geassepedia along with other sites. But as I mentioned before, I think Okouchi is testing us by making those random statements to see who actually reflected on the anime, because we can all agree that Code Geass is the type of anime that makes people reflect on things. I have been doing some background research of Okouchi out of sheer boredom and I found out that he went to a top college in Japan and he was the philosophical type (the type that questions the world around him) so naturally he would want us to do the same because we can open out eyes to many things if we actually question the world around us. I would also like to say something about those who think that dying is the only way to repent for sins; Dying is not the only way to repent for sins, if you saw the anime Ruroni Kenshin, the main character Kenshin killed wayy more people than Lelouch did during the war but then he devotes his entire life to protect the people (similar to Suzaku except Kenshin didn’t have to die to accomplish this) and of course let’s not forget about the classic anime Gundam Wing. In Gundam Wing, Heero Yuy and the other gundam pilots killed innocent people but they repented for their sins by fighting those who want to endanger others. Also, the villain of Gundam Wing, Milliardo Peacecraft, walked through a path of carnage (and killed more than Lulu of course) in order to create total pacifism but he repents for his sins by destroying his ship so that Heero can live. Everyone thought that Milliardo Peacecraft died that day (which he did) but then in the Gundam Wing Endless Waltz movie, Milliardo came back to fight and protect the earth, but he was no longer Milliardo Peacecraft. So my point is that even if Lelouch vi Brittania survived, it wouldn’t really lessen his sacrifice because he would use his talents to help the world just like Suzaku. However, I still standby the statements Zongetsu and I made about “Lelouch vi Brittania” dying and being reborn as L.L./R.R. I won’t elaborate too deeply on that because it has been stated multiple times.
December 16th, 2008 at 3:15 am
Geassfan, that is actually pretty popular. That is also why Guilford survived for so long, even after FLEIA. It is called an Ensemble Darkhorse. It is on TVTropes (Hilarious site, by the way). I’ll get the link.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EnsembleDarkhorse
As you can see, Jeremiah is the mascot of the Ensemble Darkhorse.
Here is the Code Geass page.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CodeGeass
December 16th, 2008 at 8:35 am
Apparently the official guidebook is out and list him as dead.
Can Taniguchi and Okouchi change their mind? Of course, this happened in Gundam Seed where Mu La Flaga died in episode 49 but the Director changed his mind and brought him back for the sequel. The same thing could happen here.
Also Kenshin killed less than a hundred people, by the time the actual war started he had killed Tomoe and after that he only killed as a last scenario as shown in the Jinchuu saga. Lelouch killed more people than that by the mid point of the first season with the death of the JLF, and the people he killed in the rock slide (like Shirley’s father). With the actual war, and Lelouch’s time as Emperor his death toll would be well into the thousands.
Also the entire manga was about Kenshin’s redemption, Code Geass is about Lelouch’s life.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Wow look who came out from hiding
December 16th, 2008 at 10:17 am
charred knight dude if u still dont get the point after all this ur truly an idiot, okouchi missed his chance 2 explain it in the anime & no lame guidebook can change the anime
December 16th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Well, as I mentioned multiple times for all we know Okouchi could be trying to test us by giving random statements, I honestly don’t see how the L.L./R.R. situation goes against Okouchi’s words. Okouchi mentioned that Lelouch vi Brittania is dead and we can all agree on that but he didn’t say anything about him not recieving the code. And I wasn’t trying to compare Lulu to Kenshin I was just trying to say that dying isn’t really the only way for him to repent for his sins.
December 16th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Good lord….people are still debating this here?
Not that I’m going to add more fuel to the fire, but Charred Knight…out of your three options, I’d pick a bit of both two and three. Nunnally found out Lelouch was still a kind hearted person through her magic hands, but the flashbacks themselves would represent part of what went through her mind, as an artistic choice and also to save time instead of showing how she put two and two together.
That’s it. Goodbye.
December 16th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Well that’s exactly what created the confusion in the first place, and those flashback could mislead anyone. If you ask me, Okouchi could have lessened the ambiguity by not showing flashbacks, but that’s only a small part of it. Don’t forget that as Suzaku was stabbing Lelouch, Lelouch said “destroy the enemy of the world, Lelouch vi Brittania” so Lelouch vi Brittanis is dead but he is reborn as L.L/R.R. At the end of the day, Lelouch vi Brittania was only a mask. But as I mentioned before, the creators had their chance to make things completely clear in the anime but they didn’t so therefore the anime ending stands alone
December 16th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
If that was true than Okouchi would have implied that, he was clear in the statement that he was dead, he stated that Lelouch died for the sake of his new world, and from what I heard at animesuki the guide book list him as dead. If Lelouch died metaphorically than Suzaku would be listed among the dead as well.
The R.R thing makes no sense because that would imply a translation mistake on the part of Taniguchi and Okouchi. They translated Lelouch Lamperouge perfectly, R2 simply stands for Revolution and Restoration. The Revolution takes up the 50 episodes while Restoration happens immediatly after.
The reason I left was that I was getting nowhere and I came back just to point out that the complete Code Geass Guidebook list him as dead in several places
I just found a translations and scans
http://community.livejournal.com/code_geass/1178870.html
“For those two who bear the heavy sin known as killing their fathers, they share the belief that they can forgive each other by imposing the greatest punishments on themselves. Death for Lelouch who wishes for a tomorrow with his sister, life for Suzaku who wishes to atone for his sins through death. Suzaku, who accepts the weight of Zero’s mask, gives his gratitude to Lelouch. For the fact that he can atone for his sins. For the results of fulfilling his own wish.”
I don’t know what us to tell you other than that’s the official guidebook from Sunrise. So Okouchi has stated that Lelouch is dead, and now Sunrise has stated that Lelouch is dead.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:37 am
I think they are totally contradicting themselves now, why didn’t they make it perfectly clear in the anime ending? Well if they all wanted him dead why the hell did they make the ending an ambiguous ending? Okouchi’s words about Nunnaly seeing through people’s hearts and C.C. being happy because of the memories of Lelouch are way to far fetched. And the way I see it the guidebook is Sunrise’s way of admiting that they are idiots for screwing up the ending but sadly a guidebook isn’t enough to change the ambiguity of the anime. The only way Sunrise can atone for the mistakes they made in the final episode is by either remaking the final episode or having an OVA, until then Zongetsu and I will stand by our statements about him getting the code.
Btw I was reading the explanations in the guidebook and it correlates to Okouchi’s words about Lelouch vi Brittania dead. If you think about it Suzaku’s name should also be in the death list because he died to become Zero. But I guess they didn’t put Suzaku’s name on the death list because he was faking his death. As for the R.R./L.L. thing, I was just saying that it would be a possible name for the newly immortal Lelouch, and now that you mentioned that R2 means Revolution and Restoration, that name would fit the new Lelouch perfectly.
Let me explain the whole immortal thing clearly, first of all, think back to when C.C. was a past (Whose real name is Cececina Corballele or something like that) and when the nun killed her in order to give Cecacina her code, she was no longer Cecacina she became C.C. And if you look at the flashbacks of the human C.C. was you will notice huge differences between Cecacina and C.C. and that’s because they are two completely different people. As for the deceased Lelouch vi Brittania, he’s gone forever but now he lives on as a different entity known as L.L/R.R. (of course it dosn’t necessarily have to be his name). But anyways the point is that he’s no longer the Lelouch vi Brittania, the Lelouch who we knew and admired throught the entire series and the guidebook dosn’t necessarily deny this either.
Well, I would like to know what the guidebook has to say about Jeremiah, C.C. and Charles (particularly what happened to his code). But either way there is nothing Sunrise can do to change the anime so they are trying to rewrite the final episode in their lame guidebook. As I mentioned before, Zongetsu and I stand by our evidence that Lelouch recieved the code and the only way that will change is if Sunrise remakes the last episode or they make an OVA to clear everything. If you look closely at the key details of the entire anime, you will be able to conclude that he’s alive.
What most people get is that even though Lelouch vi Brittania is dead, him coming back as an immortal wouldn’t lessen his sacrifice because he’s no longer Lelouch vi Brittania, who the people hated. Don’t forget the line he said before Suzaku stabbed him is “Destroy the enemy of the world, Lelouch vi Brittania” But now with the code he no longer bears the identity of Lelouch vi Brittania just as C.C. no longer bears the identity of Cecacina Corballele (or whatever her real name is). As for Suzaku, technically speaking he should be dead, but I guess doem would say that he should be alive because he faked his death but Lelouch vi Brittania on the other hand did not fake his death. Which is why he no longer bears that identity, but you may chose to believe or not believe this. I understand that this can be difficult for people to grasp depending on their beliefs, but as a person who believes in reincarnation I would say that Lelouch getting the code makes alot of sence.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:58 am
Yo I was just reading that fucked up guidebook as well & all it does is give a bio of all the characters & shit but like geassdude said it dosnt really deny him getting immortal afterwards & I would like 2 say something about the part where the guidebook says the only ppl who he actually loved r c2 & nunnaly, well first of all they r only sticking with the anime b/c in the anime he never says the 3 magic words 2 any of the girls who love him & throught the series there have been Clulu moments, Kalulu moments, and Shirlulu monents & its up 2 the viewer 2 decide which of the 3 he actually loved because tons of evidence can b gathered 2 prove that he has feelings for them. Of course the guidebook wouldnt lean toward a pairing b/c in the anime he never confessed his love 2 anyone while it suggested that he did have feelings for them. But throught their fliers and magazines it has been implied that they support Clulu & Clulu is the most popular couple of the entire show, so my point is that the guidebook goes by wat happened in the anime but as far as the events after the anime, such as lulus’ code activating afterwards thats 4 us 2 decide. But I still stand by the Clulu pairing & cart driver lulu analysis & as geass dude said the only way sunrise can prove it wrong is by remaking the final episode or making a movie
December 17th, 2008 at 6:07 am
Theirs one problem
Once again you are falling back on a metaphoric death when its made clear that Suzaku who did die a metaphoric death is still stated to be alive. The whole point was that they would choose the harshest penalties. Lelouch who wanted to live with Nunnaly chooses to die, while Suzaku who wanted to die to atone is forced to live.
It’s made clear in the series that Lelouch loves all three of them, and no official couple is given, unless you count the Suzaku character profile stating that Lelouch wanted to live with Nunnaly.
Since not even Sunrise itself can apparently tell you that your wrong then I am leaving, I just wanted to show you proof that his dead.
December 17th, 2008 at 6:30 am
charred knight, ru on drugs? Wtf is this metaphoric death shit ur talkin about? There is no denying that lelouch vi brittania is dead & as u mentioned he cant live w/nunnaly but that alone would b the harshest penalty 4 lulu along with the fact that he has thrown away his old life, now he can no longer live w/her & like I said the only way sunrise can “prove” us wrong is by remaking the final ep or making a movie otherwise the anime ending still remains ambiguous & no 100 page guidebook can correct the mistake they made in the anime ending
December 17th, 2008 at 6:40 am
I agree with Lulu dead ppl’s statement, by making the guidebook Sunrise is basically admitting that they poorly executed the final episode and the guidebook was their way of saying “Sorry we jacked up the anime ending, here is how it was supposed to be” But they should have made it clear back then in the ANIME instead of writing a book about how they screwed up because that won’t change the ambiguity of the anime ending. So, Charred Knight, now it brings back to the question I asked repeatedly: If they wanted to make Lulu’s death 100% clear, why did they throw in those ambiguous scenes in the end? Either way, the viewers will still see the anime as an open end and Sunrise can’t do anything about it unless they decide to remake the final episode or add an OVA.
Btw how many people do you think will actually go through the time and effort to buy their R2 guidebook? Ik Geass is a great anime but nobody really cares about what the producers or even the writers have to say about it because the anime is over and there’s nothing they can do about it. When the final episode of R2 gets released in the English version, the people will automatically think that Lulu is alive due to the large amount of ambiguity in that episode (unless the English version changes some of the lines). So, my point is that the anime itself will always remain an open end despite what anyone says unless Sunrise decides to make modifications to it.
December 17th, 2008 at 6:41 am
Btw I am Lulu dead ppl’s friend Tom, I am using his computer today xDD
December 17th, 2008 at 6:46 am
Well the Lulu dead ppl hater and Tom said everything that needed to be said so I have nothing more to add. However, I will tell something interesting I found out the other dayThere’s a term for this kind of thing– it’s called “The Death of the Author” and it has its origins in literature. Basically, once an author has finished writing a book, the book stands alone. The author doesn’t go around and tell you about the book. Instead, the interpretation is up to the reader…and the author gets to say whatever he wants to say by writing the book (but he can’t go around and explain it afterwards).
In this case, the director had his chance to explain his story by writing and animating the series. However, now that it’s over, the series will speak for itself (through the action of its characters and whatever subtle hints). -The ending will speak for itself.- In other words, one can say that the series can stand alone after the director is done with it and we are all entitled to our interpretation of the ending
It’s your choice whether or not you want to believe this but I just wanted to throw that out there
December 17th, 2008 at 6:53 am
Yo its lulu dead ppl hater again I have 1 final msg 2 the charred knight if he is brave enough 2 debate me again: TRY 2 FIND EVIDENCE FROM THE ANIME ITSELF 2 PROVE US WRONG INSTEAD OF LOOKING AT FUCKING GUIDEBOOKS & OKOUCHI’S WORDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 17th, 2008 at 7:42 am
The guide book is a merchandise. Everything that have to be official goes into it.
But I still give it a benefit of the doubt, Lelouch together with C.C. is my favourite Geass characters.
So I stick to the fact that he is alive, alive and together with C.C., because that girl deserves a bit of happiness too.
Official or not, it will be interesting to observe where it is heading and what will happen when the Geass fever goes down.
December 17th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Well, ive actually read some of the guide book and it states, multiple times that, lelouch died, he repented for his sins, blah blah blah over and over again. Its like theyre trying to make you belive hes dead because they were like oh, we screwed up or something. Plus with that being said there would be hundreds of contradictions with the anime.
For one, in ep 23, CC has a short dialouge with lelouch. She tells him
“Isnt this enough already? Youve done well”
Then a while later …
“you have all been doing this for nunnallys sake”
“I cannot give her special treatment anymore, for the sake of the many lives that have disappeared. We cannot stop anymore, isnt that so CC?”
“ah, youre right lelouch”
*then we see her hold his hand head on his back…CCxLelouch scene. =]*
We also see in this scene, the black knight standing alone, as if “isolated” from everything else.
Black knight=lelouch
As we know, CC is sick of war due to the previous statement “isnt this enough?”
So when she is fighting Kallen, you hear her answer Kallens question,
“does that mean you love lelouch?”
she replies
“Im not sure, however i do want to end this experience.”
Yes, she wasnt talking about dying or anything like that, she just wanted all the fighting and stuff to be over, she is human too.
Hmm, another thing, Lelouch could have ended it with just being the emperor of britannia, and created a more peaceful world that way, but for suzakus sake, and euphys too, he choose to create more blood spill in order to “cover” what euphy did. Noble act indeed.
Lelouch then says,
“its funny to say so but…”
then CC butts in
“you will both do it no? Both of you”
“Yes, for the Zero Requiem”
Mhm…what did they both do for the Zero Requiem…….let me think, didnt they both “DIE”? In order for it to work they both had to disappear, and they did…
One fact i learned from watching the both seasons through is that, they occasianally leave blanks such as “CC your my…” and stuff like that. BUt once you finish the story, you can fill in those spaces. Look at what Ougi did, he said to viletta, “Shes my…” and look what happend to him.
Plus if they really wanted him dead sooo badly, the could have ended it when he got stabbed, or shown his dead body being lowered into a grave. Or having CC cry. (after he died) It would have all worked out.
Too many contradictions, gets very annoying. I believe the anime, it tells the truth.
December 17th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
To clear up contradictions
While Lelouch did want to make Euphiemia look good, he also wanted to atone for his own sins of using geass on people, and for killing people, that’s why he didn’t end it with becoming Emperor of Britannia, he wanted to die to atone for his sins, and do it in such a way that it brings peace.
“Will you both do it for Zero Requiem?” this is simply talking about Lelouch dying, and Suzaku becoming Zero. She was being mysterious because neither Taniguchi or Okouchi wanted the audience to know what happens before it happens. They sure as hell are not going to tell you what Zero Requiem is during a conversation.
Did they show Lelouch dying on screen? Considering that Lelouch had a large sword stuck in him then yes. Did they spell it out for the audience? Considering that Lelouch had a large sword thrusted clean through him than yes they did.
For Lelouch to have code, than C.C would have to sneak off with Lelouch without Nunnaly, Suzaku, or Kallen knowing. That’s kind of stretching it.
Why was Jeremiah smiling? He was following Lelouch’s orders, Jeremiah is loyal to Lelouch and knew everything, Lelouch would be happy, and peace would be created, that was why Jeremiah was smiling. It would be unbelievable that Lelouch would rather have Jeremiah know that his alive than either Suzaku or Kallen.
If Okouchi, Taniguchi, or Sunrise wanted Code Geass to be ambiguous than they wouldn’t have mentioned Lelouch’s death in the interviews or the guide. The guide itself especially Suzaku’s character page is quite clear on why Lelouch wanted to die, and why he created Zero Requiem.
December 17th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Well they didnt make it clear in the anime & like zongetsu & geassdude said the guidebook was their way of saying “sorry guys we fucked up the ending, here’s how it was supposed 2 be” So basically they are basically changing the ambiguity of the final ep but its 2 late 4 that, the anime stands 4 itself. They cant just make an anime & then in the end say in interviews how the anime really ended b/c they had their chance 2 make things perfectly clear in the anime but that last few scenes made almost every1 think hes alive. As for Orange boy, ur right his job was 2 serve lulu but dont u find it odd that he didn’t shed a single tear, even though lulu accomplished his dream? And another thing, Orange’s job is to serve the royal family but why isn’t he by nunnaly’s side? I am sure lulu would want him 2b beside nunnaly along with suzaku. I would like 2 add that whenever a main character dies in geass they normally show a scene of their grave but they didnt 4 lulu. And don’t forget Charles’ quote “Defeat me and you shall succeed the power of the Kings” Along with Lulu’s quote “Destroy the enemy of the world Lelouch vi Brittania”
December 17th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
I agree with Lulu dead ppl hater, besides, about the issue of him getting the code of course Sunrise isn’t going to go against Okouchi’s words because they already gave him enough hard time by making him and Tanguchi remake the series. I think that the guidebook was their way of apologizing to them along with the audience for their mistakes. Well anywys, as Lulu dead ppl and Charred Knight mentioned, there was no official pairing and of course Sunrise didn’t lean towards a certain pairing due to all the evidence of the LuluxC.C. moments, LuluxKallen moments, and LuluxShirley moments.
However, we could say the same for the code part, in the ANIME there has been many instances where it implies that Lulu got the code and part of it are the quotes that Lulu dead ppl mentioned, and another thing. In the beginning of the series C.C. told Lelouch that the geass would bring HIM loneliness not the world so in that last quote must mean that he was able to overcome the curse of geass. And it’s not because he’s reunited with his friends in heaven because if you were to put it that way, then all the other geass users overcame the curse of geass as well, thus making Lulu no different from them.
Also, Lulu promised to make C.C. die smiling in episode 15 of the first season he said “I will grant your wish and mine” We all know that Lulu wouldn’t leave a debt unpaid because without C.C. he would have died much sooner.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Besides, if you ask me, an ambiguous ending would suit Code Geass better because it is a series that leaves alot of viewers thinking
December 18th, 2008 at 3:24 am
I think Lelouch’s wish was to live with Nunnally in a world of peace, so denying him that would be the equivalent of Suzaku’s ‘death’. Even if he was alive and with the code, he wouldn’t be able to even see his sister except on the T.V. and such, because she can recognize him (She lived with him for seven years while blind). So chances are, no matter how much you disguise yourself, she’ll still be able to recognize him. It is hard to change appearance, style of talking, walking, and habits (A-la episode 3 I think, when Zero calls Suzaku and idiot and Suzaku mentions Lelouch used to call him an idiot) completely. So living without being with her would be pretty horrid to him.
And the English version will probably be changed, and cause quite a bit of controversy. They will add a part where C.C. says he died -.-.. I just hope they don’t change this one line. “I… Am the one who destroys worlds… And create them…” or something like that.
As for Jeremiah smiling.. Maybe he knew that Lelouch had a Code? Lelouch never told ANYONE EVERYTHING. Except MAYBE C.C., but something tells me he would trust Orange (He blew up two Knightmare frames and flew through the air to kill an enemy of his. THAT IS PURE LOYALTY!).
Then there is the body. That is simple. Everyone knows that the allied forces of someone almost always retrieves bodies from a battlefield (I am pretty sure even the Vikings did this. The only people I can imagine not are Germans (Unless they are like Aryan during WWII) or Russians). There was a fight over King Leonidis’ body in the real battle of ‘300′. Logically, Jeremiah and Lelouch’s soldier-slaves would have carried his body off (I doubt Cornelia would have denied them his body, since she is a warrior-persona type person.
And it is good, but I wouldn’t mind seeing a small OVA with Lelouch, C.C., Jeremiah, and Anya. I have a feeling both of them could keep a secret. Plus I love all those characters.
December 18th, 2008 at 7:16 am
So what your saying is that not only does Lelouch trust Jeremiah more than Suzaku but he would purposely screw Suzaku?
It stated that Lelouch and Suzaku chose the worse punishment to atone for his sins, for Lelouch who wants to live that means death, for Suzaku who wants to die that means life. By living Suzaku would be screwing Suzaku and I don’t see him doing that. One of the things that made Lelouch better than Charles was that Lelouch felt horrible for what he did, he regretted pretty much everything, and than chose to die to atone for it.
Why did they leave the original anime ambiguous? My guess is time, they simply didn’t have time to explain everything so they explained as much as they could and explained the rest in the guide. The least 5 episodes where incredibly rushed due to the time change, and the result is that they didn’t have time for everything. If they wanted the ending to be ambiguous than the interviews and guides would be ambiguous.
JustAnotherCGFan, your completely missing the point of the ending, lelouch felt horrible for his actions so while he wanted to live with Nunnaly, Kallen, and C.C he chose death because that was the harshest penalty. Suzaku who has no one to live with or for chose life since that was the harshest penalty.
You want Lelouch to be like Charles, a man who wants his dream world but doesn’t want to sacrifice for it, you want him to have a happy ending being with C.C, but that would undermine the entire series, Lelouch isn’t a villain like Charles, he understood that for his dream world millions died, and for those millions who died, Lelouch chose death. You claim to love Lelouch but you certainly never understood him.
Also considering that they just put out a guide stating that Lelouch died, than I see no reason for why they would put out an OVA to appease the fans and undermine the entire series. Sure it would sell at least 10,000 copies but Okouchi and Taniguchi didn’t make Code Geass for the money.
December 18th, 2008 at 7:29 am
Well if you look at that last scene with C.C. and the cartdriver you will notice that the area they are in seems to be somewhat isolated from the rest of society. Besides as I mentioned before, they never really showed what happened to his body. If you recall the first episode where C.C. got shot, she was knocked out until the fifth episode and there was a timeskip between Lulu’s death and Kallen’s epilogue speech (according to the official sources) so anything could have happened within the two months. And as I mentioned before, it wouldn’t make sence for C.C. to be happy unless Lulu is with her in some way because she had been lonely her entire life and Lulu is the one who actually gave her a reason to live in the end.
Here are some quotes in the final episode which I find interesting yet somewhat contradicting. When Lulu was about to get stabbed, C.C. said “Lelouch, as a price of casting geass, you…….” and in the end of the episode she says “The Power of the Kings has the power to bring people loneliess, but I guess that’s innacurate, right Lelouch?” So, why would her opinion of geass change all of a sudden? Unless Lulu was able to escape isolation by being with her. And here’s another interesting quote which Lulu said, “I will gamble on the geass known as the people’s wishes.” Notice he said GAMBLE, meaning he wasn’t fully sure his plan would work. And lastly, one of the most important quotes he says is “Destroy the enemy of the world, Lelouch vi Brittania.” As I mentioned before with the code activating he’s no longer Lelouch vi Brittania, he’s just an entity who no longer has a mask.
For those who say that if Lulu was immortal, he would be living with Nunnaly, don’t forget that in the beginning of the final episode he said “Nunnaly, you have grown and aquired your own principles.” So that means he understands that Nunnaly is strong enough to carry out a life without him and that she no longer needs his support. Even in R2 episode 23, Lulu said “I can’t give her special treatment anymore, for the sake of all the lives that have been lost.” So my point is that Lulu was ready to sever his ties with Nunnaly one way or another.
If you think about it, if Lelouch has the code, he can really have a chance to start over again. Remember, in season 1 episode 14 he told Shirley that if he could be born into a different life, he would. In this case, L.L./R.R. would be his different life because Lelouch vi Brittania repesents the sins of the old world (which he destroyed) and L.L./R.R. represents the new world which looks to the future.
December 18th, 2008 at 7:59 am
@JustAnotherCGFan
thats a nice story of wat could have happened 2 his body but there is no evidence from the anime 2 prove it
@Charred Knight
Ru stupid? Of course Code Geass was written 2 get money, this is a business world and all okouchi and tanguchi can do is write mangas 4 a living. PPl don’t do jobs for fun anymore, they do it b/c they have an incentive 2 do it (which is 2 get paid in order 2 support ur family). Besides, if you actually read their mangas, its completely different from the anime & in my opinion the directors cant go on 2 change/add parts in the anime after its complete by making guidebooks b/c that would take away creditbility from the anime they make. Whenever I watch animes I like 2 draw my own conclusions from the anime itself than peoples words b/c the anime is wat has the visual evidence while words have written evidence but thats just the way I view things personally & I honestly dont know y ppl would waste their time buying & reading Sunrise/Okouchi interviews, Ik code geass is a great anime but as geassdude mentioned a 100 page book isnt enough 2 explain how complex the series truly is & in my opinion when it comes 2 complex animes, the decision lies within urself of how u view it & interpret it.
December 18th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Well, we did somewhat see suzaku die. It showed him, no eject from lancelot as it blew up. Pretty sure that would mean he died. But he didnt because he’s a ninja, just like orange is.
And as for lelouch “not sacrificing” anything if he lived on with CC would be a lie. As a sacrifice, he lost everything he pretty much cared for, friends and even nunnally. Death is not a penalty. It is the easy way out. If he wanted out so bad, he couldve just died a long time ago, but he didnt, he chose to live on. I would say the same in this scenario. He could no longer live as Lelouch, that entity had vanished. Even suzaku called it “our strategic objective”. Another thing to point out is that even CC says eternal life is hell, because you lose too many important things over time. However, her saying would only become not true, like she said in the end
“geass is the power of kings, it will isolate you, but i guess thats a little wrong, nah lelouch?
This statement alone proves that geass didnt isolate people, as it was supposed to. Geass was that thing that brought her and lelouch together. It wouldnt make sense if he wasnt alive. Ntm during the last few episodes they probably throw more CCxLelouch scenes in than the did in the entire anime.
And ill circle back to a few ideas. For one, if CC said “you will do it no. Both of you”, well to me that sounds like they are doing the exact same thing. add that to what lelouch said earlier, “its funny to say so but…” and you get that they are doing the same thing. Lelouch and suzaku and “both do it” and do different things. Makes no sense.
and for your statement about him sneaking of with CC and people not knowing it, im pretty sure some people did know about it…like suzaku, orange, however some people, like kallen would probably never know.
and for the “jeramiah was smiling because he was loyal to lelouch” crap take this analogy. You can be loyal to your gf or wife all you want, but what would you do if you saw her with another man? “oh i guess she is happy now, ill let her be =]”…sure you will, still doesnt make any sense if you put it this way.
And..Id like to say, charred knight, YOU ARE THE ONE who DOESNT understand him.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:26 am
lol i agree w/the last statement Zong but I bet u a million bucks that charred knight will come back & say some shit like “sunrise & the writers know lulu’s character better than u do” & then he will go on 2 repeat okouchis words & the lame guidebook
December 18th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Well, yeah LDPH, it doesn’t explicitly state anything concerning his body except it slides down that incline. I was just presenting a scenario that would be common in most real-life situations. Not letting someone collect the bodies of their dead is highly looked down upon in ‘civilized’ society. And honestly, I don’t mind if he is dead. Sure, if he was, I’d be sad, but eh. I would just like to see more stories set in the world of Code Geass. A prequel mini-series of the invasion would be delicious. I even have a fan-comic strip of him sealing himself in one of those gas chambers (As C.C. was), and being awoken a few hundred years in the future when peace is gone. I would love to have something like that happen.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Oh for the love of god the C.C thing has been explained already
C.C felt that the power of the kings isolated people, she felt that she couldn’t love, or have feelings for people, but Lelouch by showing her that she was not isolated proved her wrong. That’s what she meant C.C can live her life free of isolation, she can go to some village, or something fall in love, enjoy life to the fullest, all because Lelouch showed her the truth. That’s what that line meant, it doesn’t contradict anything Okouchi, Taniguchi or the guide has stated.
As for Lulu dead ppl hater, I think Okouchi and Taniguchi understands Lelouch better than you since they created Lelouch. You might think you know better than Okouchi or Taniguchi but you don’t.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Well, Lelouch promised to make her die smiling and she’s going to eventually be lonely again if she continues living and going through that endless cycle of loss.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Besides she said “geass is the power of kings, it will isolate you, but i guess thats a little wrong, nah lelouch?” Notice she said GEASS not the Code, as we all know C.C. has the Code not Geass. If Sunrise says that, it would be like saying geass and code are the same thing. And it dosn’t change the fact that C.C. is ALONE
December 18th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
@charred knight
true tanguchi & okouchi did create Lulu but they portrayed him in a way which u will never really know wat goes through his mind. They made him somewhat mysterious in a way & they make it so that ppl can either like him or hate him. & about the explanation of C2 I only have 3 words 2 say, WTF! Are those guys on crack? Its obvious that C2’s problem was that she was lonely not that she was unable 2 express her feelings. In fact, there were many instances where it was implied that her TRUE WISH IS 2B LOVED.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
I would also like to make another statement regarding C.C. Particularly this line “she felt that she couldn’t love, or have feelings for people,” That has been proven false throught the series. If you refer to the Mao arc, C.C. did show feelings of regret about abandoning Mao and she was always worrying about Lelouch as well.
About this quote,”That’s what she meant C.C can live her life free of isolation, she can go to some village, or something fall in love, enjoy life to the fullest, all because Lelouch showed her the truth.” We all know that if she were to gain a bond in a village she would loose it eventually so that would make her alone in the end. Also Okoichi’s words were “the memories created by Lelouch is what saved C.C. from her entire loneliness,” so he said that her memories with Lelouch are what makes her happy, which contradicts the actions she took to live for the future. I guess it would make more sence if Suzaku or someone else she knows travels with her but other than that she’s still alone and even if she makes friends, she will eventually loose them throught time. And you call that a satisfying ending?
On another note, there is no way anyone could replace Lulu in C.C.’s heart just like nobody can replace Euphy in Suzaku’s heart. I doubt that Sunrise would have included the LuluxC.C. development throught the series only to have him die in the end. Otherwise it would be an insult to the powerful bond they shared throught the entire series. Although they didn’t side with a pairing, the LuluxC.C. pairing is all over their fliers and merchendice.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
@geassdude
agreed & once C2 realizes shes alone again shes goin 2 give geass 2 some1 else & the whole cycle of war will begin once again, thus making lulu’s sacrifice worthless. & as u mentioned b4, lulu promised 2 make C2 die smiling not to give her an incentive 2 live forever so in other words, lulu being dead could actually reverse everything he worked hard 2 accomplish. I seriously doubt Lulu would b so stupid 2 let C2 go alone considering all the destruction that has been caused by the power of geass throught the entire series. If Sunrise does decide 2 continue the series the new story will definatly b about C2 giving geass 2 some1 else & that person uses geass 4 evil deeds & recreates the cycle of hatred.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Well, to strike charred knight down, YET again…id just have to say do you understand CC or even the anime?
If you did, you would have realized that she could love, hate, and have human emotions, however it was painful for her for she would continue this “never ending” experience. Not only did it isolate her, by keeping her alive for hundreds of years, but she also isolated herself so she wouldnt feel anymore pain. The pain of losing close ones IS painful. So if you didnt have any emotions or attach yourself to anyone you wouldnt care that much, thats what she did. It was like a double isolation.
If lelouch was indeed to die, she would continue where she left off, that “experience” which she wanted to end so badly. In r2 ep 15, she made a choice about this. She could have chosen to die, to end that experience, or to live on, with the promise that lelouch has made with her. She OBVIOUSLY chose lelouch. So, if this last line of hope for her vanished, she wouldve been happy at all in the end.
And how do you live an immortal life to its fullest?…
It never ends….ever.
and just to comment on geassfans post, id like to say he is right. No one could replace the gap in CC heart if lelouch was to die. After all, this was the first time she had met a man like him, and he also was the first man to thank her for anything. Think about that. Thinks like that you never want to disappear. And do you think CC wouldve really let him die? even if he wanted to? They are accomplances, friends, lovers, all which are the same.
As lelouch said in previous episodes
“I will grant you wish and my own.”
“Youre not alone, If you are a witch, then ill become a warlock”
Do the math
You know what? I think im definately smarter than Okouchi and Taniguchi combined. If they were smart, the wouldve made a solid ending, but they didnt. Now they left a huge whole for guys who think lelouch is dead, what the heck.
December 18th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Here’s a suggestion sign up at Animesuki and debate those people
December 18th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
hmmm, good suggestion =]
or maybe you can get them to come here for i find animesuki to be way too confusing for its not organized very well. But ill give it a go
December 18th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Zongetsu has a good point, throught the entire series, there were hints that Lulu and C.C. would share the same fate, whether it would be life or death. As I mentioned before, it dosn’t make sence to make either Lulu or C.C. live without one another because it would lack the essance of their powerful bond. And I would probably accept Sunrise’s or Okouchi’s words if they made C.C. die as well or at least mention how she’s going to die smiling but they didn’t so therefore I won’t buy any of the shit they say. The only way Sunrise can correct their mistake is by remaking the final episode or creating an OVA to explain what really happened.
Charred Knight, earlier you mentioned that Sunrise couldn’t get their point across because there wasn’t enough screen time. Well the fact is that they would have gotten their point across flawlessly if they didn’t include the flashback scenes when Lulu touched Nunnaly’s hand and if they reworded C.C.’s last line because those are the elements which caused the confusion in the first place. But I still think that they believe that Lulu is alive but they decided to put their opinions aside by creating the 100 page guidebook as a testament to Okouchi’s words because they already gave him enough hard time.
So, in other words the ending that Sunrise/Okouchi wanted to create isn’t really clear due to the ambiguity of the ending. If I were to believe their words I would say that the ending is completely flawed because they left C.C. alive and alone, which will repeat her cycle of loneliness and thus she will give geass to someone else and the cycle of hatred will start all over again. Let’s not forget that in the final episode of season 1 she said “All the people who loved me and hated me dissapeared over time.” And if C.C. lives on, she’s going to whitness that same cycle continuously.
As Lulu dead ppl hater said, if C.C. continues to face that same cycle again (which she will if you actually take Sunrise/Okouchi’s words into consideration) then she will definatly give geass to someone else and then another cycle of hatred will begin, thus making Lulu’s sacrifice invane. Anyone who has common sence should be able to figure out that much. That’s why it makes more sence for Lulu to be with C.C. in some way (preferably as an immortal with the code). At least if Lulu is alive as an immortal, it can be guaranteed that C.C. won’t pass on that power to anyone else and in that aspect, it fits in perfectly with the entire series and it would only make sence if both Lulu and C.C. share the same fate (whether it’s life or death) because both of them need each other’s support in some way.
December 18th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Animesuki is too disorganized for my taste. Plus I am not much of a debater, just a dreamer.
I wonder if the blog-writer has any idea there is still this much discussion in this particular blog post, xD.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Believe it or not, this discussion is alive in many forums
December 28th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
This can’t dieeee! I’m too lazy to find somewhere with a large concentration of Code Geass fans!
But if you can point the way to one for me I’d be happy and shut up <..>
December 31st, 2008 at 12:55 pm
http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2008/12/an-e-mail-reply-what-i-believe-regarding-lelouchs-life/
battle rages on
January 2nd, 2009 at 5:26 pm
[b]i think this is gay [/b]
January 3rd, 2009 at 8:45 pm
lolzzzz!!!
#1 taniguichi is the genius behind series, he nvr confirmed it
#2 the people who played the cast i cant blame em, but if ur gonna take the word of the fuck ass holes who screwed tanigiuchi’s vision and even f***** up R2 then all yall haters nvr truly got the show
ps i think taniguichi did this to redeem the rushed ending making this an ambigous ending that if no further plans come
YOU choose the ending not the staff members
January 15th, 2009 at 10:10 am
I got halfway through this warzone before getting fed up with “Lulu dead ppl hater”’s claims that, if Lelouch was confirmed dead by his creator, they would have made it DEAD PLAIN OBVIOUS.
See, that’s not always how writing and storytelling works. Dramatic effect, tension, etc. Just because some need their anvils dropped from the sky doesn’t mean that that’s the best way to create a world of characters.
Or, if you need me to make it DEAD PLAIN OBVIOUS (note the heavy snark here), something doesn’t need to be obvious to be intended or canonically true.
As for Lelouch’s survival or lack thereof, consider that Okouchi gave us this story from a world he created in his heart/mind/whathaveyou. What’s true for him is not necessarily true for anyone who has taken it into themselves. That does not, however, mean that it is anywhere near OK to bash him and claim that his thoughts are insignifigant. His Lelouch is dead, yours may not be. It’s that simple.
-CS
P.S. The ’see through the hearts of people’ bit makes me want to dent a few walls.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:19 am
All HAIL SUZAKU!
February 28th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
And Besided, Tanguchi (the director/co-writer) says that the ending is open for interpretation and he didn’t comment on Lulu’s fate and said that it’s open for interpretation and Idk why people are giving Okouchi more credibility than Tanguchi.
April 16th, 2009 at 11:51 am
It’s been awhile. I recently wrote a letter to the Code Geass Director about the idea of creating a novel that would be based on his original ideas for Code Geass R2, where, in the original plot, Lelouch defeats Suzaku at the ruins near the thought elevator in Stage 25.
There a rumors that there might be a third season in the works for Code Geass, but from 2ch. I would be very surprised if they did another Code Geass series that follows the current R2 version, since the staff did not like that experience at all. If they did, my initial speculation is as follows:
1. The series takes place from where R2 had left off in the near future with a different character(possibly Rai), which is a very strong possiblilty.
2. An alternate series that was based on the original plans for R2, but with a different storyline that would not overlap with the current R2 version.
3. A prequel that would feature Charles, Marianne, and Bismark.
Personally, I would rather see a novel created first so that the anime could follow that storyline. I never liked Zero’s Requiem because I felt that it was nothing more than a generic plot to kill off the series, due the staff negative experience of producing the second season. It was on the assumption that the series would not get another season to being with after that. All of the initial plot to the second season fizzled out, one after the other due to problems caused by the executive staff over the changes of the plot to suit an audience who have largely aready seen the first season at late night. Thus the changes to suit this new audience was an insult to their intelligence.
I my honest opinion, I feel that whatever was to have been the focal point of the second season wasn’t Zero’s Requiem.
I doesn’t hurt to write to Taniguchi, Director of the series with your comments. Every bit helps. Here is the address if you want to write to the following:
Gorō Taniguchi: Director
or
Ichirō Ōkouchi: Screen Writer
Make sure you address their name as follows:
Gorō Taniguchi
c/o Sunrise Inc.
2-44-10 Kami-igusa
Suginami-ku
Tokyo, Japan 167-0023
Let me know of your thoughts about my opinions.
July 24th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
You know what was damn good? The book great expectations.
The ending i thought was wide open as hell. The two characters leave in the end together hand in hand. However the author cleared it up by writing a small section about the future and how she met the guys kid. So we knew they never got together. Plain and simple
But when you get “lelouch may have died(?), but geass will not and then a promo poster with him being alive…
he must be alive