An e-mail reply: what I believe regarding Lelouch’s life
Greetings Michael, first of all I would like to thank you for all the time and effort you gave in creating the Lelouch is alive blog, it definatly had an impact on the way people viewed the entire series. As we all know Okouchi made a few statements about Lelouch and his death. However there are many people who find some contradictions in his explanations for instance, the Nunnaly seeing through people’s hearts thing along with C.C.’s explanation. I think at the very least we should agree that the Nunnaly seeing through people’s hearts thing has been proven false in the first season and even in the second season it barely had any instances of that whatsoever. Besides, there is no way she can gain such an extraordinary power in a one year timeskip. As for C.C.’s explanation, Okouchi says “She talks about how the Geass is supposed to bring loneliness, yet Lelouch proves this wrong. With the knowledge that Lelouch does not hate her for giving him the Geass, she is now able to express her true feelings” Well, we all know C.C. never had a problem with expressing herself, she was miserable because she was lonely the entire time and now she’s happy that she’s all alone again? Seems far fetched to me. I could elaborate deeply on this topic but I won’t because Zongetsu and I explained it multiple times in your other blogs. Well anyways, I just want you to know that there are still many fans who support all the statements that you made in your Lulu alive blog despite what Okouchi’s words and they haven’t lost their conviction of Lulu being alive. I heard that you succumbed to the Lelouch dead camp, but I just want you to know that your statements have opened many doors and out of the ashes of your beliefs came a new blog which gives a thorough analysis of the entire series that correlates to Lelouch being alive. Here’s the link of the analysis http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=54714. Well thanks again for creating the blog, it enabled many people view this series from a different perspective and your efforts of creating the blog was not invane.
Sincerely,
Geass101
Someone e-mailed me regarding my beliefs in Code Geass; he (or she) is a consistent commentator of this blog, and I appreciate his comments, especially on the posts on debating whether Lelouch died or not. First and foremost, I’m an avid supporter of Lelouch being alive, even despite the fact that the ‘authors’ have claimed him as being dead.
‘The author is dead.’
We will make our own assumptions regarding what we saw or have seen, and in my heart of hearts I have faith that he is living. Otherwise, it will simply be far too tragic for me.
So, Geass101, thank you for the e-mail that you’ve sent me. I appreciate it, and (still) have faith that Lelouch is still alive.
Tags: Anime, Code Geass, Code Geass R2, Serious
December 18th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
This is one of those debates that I think it’s best to just let everyone have their own opinion. Depending on your perspective, what you believe is what makes the best ending for you. You say Lelouch dying would be too tragic for you. I believe he’s dead because Lelouch surviving would make it too contrived for me. To me, Lelouch’s death is what made R2’s ending amazing, so that’s that. In the end, regardless of what Taniguchi and the rest of the creative team say, I think they were clever to leave it pretty ambiguous in the actual episode. That ambiguity allows so many more people to enjoy it by interpreting what they want.
December 18th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
I haven’t seen Code Geass at all, thanks for spoiling it with your rear spoilers of fast spoilerage. Now I know to avoid your Toradora posts until I watch those episodes.
December 18th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Personally, I’d opt for a happy ending (Lelouch is alive), however, here’s the slightly ironic part.
If I want to pursue a good ending (good as in complete, well attributed, not good as in happy), he’s better off dead. Having him alive will account for a happy but bad ending.
Nevertheless, it’s nice to see that Geass tl;dr are still going on.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
OH MY FUCKING GOD YOU’RE STILL ON ABOUT THIS?!
Look. Lelouch dying would still be a happy ending.
Also, the creators’ contradictions? Those don’t dispel anything! The entire series is full of them and you all gobbled them up like hotcakes. Either you like idiocy or you don’t. Yes, Nunnally being able to read people’s minds by touching their hands is dumb; was there an episode of CG that didn’t have some sort of unexplained dumb thing in it?
Stop looking for flaws in the explanations of people who know no reason.
The judge (Okouchi?) doesn’t need the jury (you?). GTFO.
December 19th, 2008 at 12:17 am
Come on Michael, you and other believers in Lelouch being alive should admit that such faith is based on self-gratification and not fact. You can’t let go of that ending because it makes you happy, not because it gives the series a “happy ending”, which is subjective, nor because it is true, since the authors have stated the canon. There is nothing wrong with such beliefs. It’s is after all what fandoms of shows are built on. However, admit and accept that such belief is simply a selfish one, and move on.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:05 am
Faith is often based on the lack of rationality.
I know he’s dead. Deep down, as I’ve said, in my heart of hearts, I still have faith he’s alive. But I’ve gotten over the debate whether he’s dead or not. Rationally, he’s dead.
December 19th, 2008 at 4:21 am
I agree 100% with Michael, exactly what crossed my mind.
Anyway i think this debate is getting old, there isn’t going to be more geass so it doesn’t really matter if he lives or dies
December 19th, 2008 at 7:39 am
I wonder why it is so important for everyone to agree with their own opinions, after all it doesn’t really matter if one thinks that he’s alive or dead. I think there is no “rationality” in an anime for it is fantasy anyway, so everyone is free to decide what happened at the end.
After all, a creator who has to explain his own creations isn’t much of a real creator, or he must have known that his creations could be interpreted in different ways from the beginning.
December 20th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Turambar, all I am going to say is this, I don’t know a single person who wants Lelouch to live that didn’t ship C.C X Lelouch, not a single one. They could throw the entire cast down the crapper as long as C.C and Lelouch are on some beach sipping Pina Coloda.
They could go on and on about how Lelouch sacrificed this and that so he deserves to live when the simple truth is that they don’t care about anyone else other than Lelouch and C.C. They don’t actually want Lelouch and C.C to make sacrifices and want them to have a happy ending.
December 21st, 2008 at 4:38 pm
@ Charred knight
that may be true but if u actually look through forums about which Geass pairing is the most popular, the LuluxC2 pairing exceeds the rest. So the point is that majority of the code geass viewers r LuluxC2 & the fact is that more ppl would be saying that Lulu is alive if it werent 4 Okouchi & Sunrise. Of course I dont expect every1 2 agree w/the LuluxC2 pairing b/c not every1 thinks the same way but there is a term called think outside the box & in this case Okouchi & sunrise is the box & ppl should at least try to think outside their words
December 21st, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Who the hell are you?
The actual Lulu dead ppl hater would never say anything like that.
December 21st, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Grieve for the dead and bury him. Time will not halt.
December 21st, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Haha, Charred Knight nailed things down to the point.
I wish to see Lelouch x C.C., simply become making him immortal will bring a happy ending to C.C. too. Without this, the “every one got a happy ending” statement is bullshit.
That’s the most popular pairing in Code Geass, no changing that fact.
December 21st, 2008 at 11:44 pm
@Charred Knight
Hahhaha wats wrong ru surprised that I was actually being nice 4 once?
December 22nd, 2008 at 12:19 am
It’s true that all LuluxC.C. fans say he’s alive but it’s not like we aremaking random statements without proof from the anime and that proof can’t be denied either. Whenever Zongetsu and I give explanations of how he gained the code, we always use specific scenes and quotes from the anime to prove our points. Although we can’t deny Sunrise’s errors, we also can’t deny the evidence provided throught the anime to prove that he got the code.
Well, the whole Lulu being alive thing depends on your perspective I guess but I have mentioned numerous times that “Lelouch vi Brittania” was the one who the world hated and now that he has the code he is no longer Lelouch vi Brittania. If you look back at C.C.’s past (rumors say her name was Cecacina Corballele) and when the nun killed her in order to give Cecacina her code, she was no longer Cecacina she became C.C. And if you look at the flashbacks of the human C.C. was you will notice huge differences between Cecacina and C.C. and that’s because they are two completely different people. As for the deceased Lelouch vi Brittania, he’s gone forever but now he lives on as a different entity known as L.L/R.R. (of course it dosn’t necessarily have to be his name). But anyways the point is that he’s no longer the Lelouch vi Brittania, the Lelouch who was hated by the world.
As I mentioned before, the whole alive/dead case boils down to your perspective, and those who say he’s alive can prove it through examples/quotes from the anime and those who say he’s dead has words outside the anime (Okouchi/Sunrise) to prove it but if you ask me the evidence from the anime is more powerful than evidence from an outside interview.
So, my point is that Okouchi/Sunrise had the chance to make his death perfectly clear in the anime but they didn’t so therefore the case still remains (and believe it or not it’s still alive in many forums). The only way the people will stop believing that Lelouch is alive is if there is either a remake or the final episode or make an Ova to get their point across. Unless they do that, the anime still stands for itself in my opinion.
December 22nd, 2008 at 6:52 am
Zing Freelancer: None of the main characters got happy endings. It was only minor characters like Ougi who got happy endings.
Kallen, Nunnaly, and C.C: Lelouch dies leaving them without him.
Suzaku: Given a Fate Worse than death as punishment for his actions, also loses his best Friend
Schneizel: Brainwashed into a pemenant slave for Suzaku the worst fate for any character
Xingke: I heard he dies (haven’t seen that part of the guide yet)
Lulu Dead Pple Hater: That and you just said something that was well thought out, all the previous comments you made where nothing more than idiotic trolls that I eventually started ignoring
Geassfan101, that assuming that Code Geass was perfectly done, its made clear that Code Geass went off course due to the time slot change, and frankly it never recovered with the final episodes being completely rushed with a two month period where very little is known about where Lelouch became the most hated man in the world, an ending that is insanely vague when Okouchi has been anything but vague.
I just don’t think they had the time to explain everything, show good final fights, and have an epilogue so they explained very little, than explained the rest in the guide. I could understand going the metaphor route, except that they don’t do that with Suzaku. From all the extra materials I have seen only Mutuality has one part where they do the “That’s right. Lelouch Vi Britannia and Kururugi Suzaku will disappear from this world on the same time. Our existence is not allowed. ”
It’s then followed up by the line
Suzaku questioned Lelouch if there is no other way.
“NO!” Lelouch answered immediately.
Lelouch admitted there may be other ways. There are many other ways for the case in removing Schneizel and other obstacles but that was the only way for Lelouch. Mind/heart and reasoning are two different issues, he won’t consider other methods.
and eventually
“Don’t forget our promise. You must kill me and make it up by living on. Confirm the sin and the punishment. This is our pledge.”
In other words while it would be reasonable to say that what Lelouch was doing was necessary Lelouch’s heart wouldn’t accept it. Lelouch felt that he needed to die for the crimes he commited.
Could they have made that perfectly clear in the series? Yes, but they didn’t have time.
Also their is one Picture Drama that takes place after the series and was written by Okouchi.
December 22nd, 2008 at 11:48 am
Okay, good explanation Charred knight. Congratz
However i would like to point out, that there really is no such thing as a happy ending, it is what the character decides to do with it that makes it “happy”.
For all the characters you mentioned, Kallen, Nunnally, and CC i could point out what theyre relation to lelouch would be in the end.
For one, we all know that Kallens relationship with lelouch was nothing but admiration. She didnt follow him because she “loved” him, it was because she believed he would free Japan. And, so he did, even after she tried to kill him. So, in the end she was finally “japanese” and greatful for it.
Regarding Nunnally, he pretty much planned alot of this out as he went along. Before he did anything dramatic, he believed he could change the world and live with nunnally however, as he followed the path of carnage he soon realized, that the possibility was diminishing. So, he wanted the help of a friend, suzaku, so he could watch over her if anything was to happen to him. However things would change quickly as he would believe her to be dead, and then see her alive again, this time as his enemy. It was pretty dramatic when he met nunnally on damocles, but he learned one thing from this. That was that she didnt need his guidence anymore, that she had become strong enough to stand on her own. Her plan was the same as lelouchs, to change the world by using a symbol of hate. This act allowed lelouch to regrettlessly use his geass on her. He knew she would be fine with out him. (Proven by her character song “Tiara no Kimochi”)
As for CC, she is probably the biggest reason why lelouch IS alive. Who cares about CCxLelouch, it only makes sense if its this way. For instance, CC wanted to end “this experience” that of which was living an eternal life, a life of not living. Her life was repetative, and lonely. All those who she became close to vanished leaving her alone.
That, as ill say again, is why she seems not very interactive with other people, she fears, the pain of losing them. Why do you think CC watches so carefully over lelouch? She doesnt wish to see him disappear.
This bond however is put on the line in r2 ep 15 by charles. He offers CC a contact, in exchange for her code, he would grant her wish of dying. To her, this was a reasonable choice for Lelouch had not shown her any real affection. To her, he was distancing himself, raging an endless war, and destroying the geass doctrine for Shirley. To her, she mostlikely believed herself to be unvaluable to lelouch, unimportant. However, she changes her mind at the last second, due to hope that lelouch can grant her true wish “to be loved”. She couldve just ended it all there, her lonely experience, but no, she chose to trust lelouch and live on.
Its all really elementrary when you think about it. She had a lonely experience, then her experience with lelouch. If lelouch died, it would end that “experience” and she would return back to her lonely experience. Yet its untrue for she is happy in the end, she even gives us a giggle. That doesnt seem like a lonely experience to me.
This part i really like a lot.
That’s right. Lelouch Vi Britannia and Kururugi Suzaku will disappear from this world on the same time. Our existence is not allowed. ”
It’s then followed up by the line
Suzaku questioned Lelouch if there is no other way.
“NO!” Lelouch answered immediately.
It is just as it says, lelouch wishes to remove himself from the world. If this is the same in suzaku’s case, then he definately didnt die…seriously read that again
“Lelouch Vi Britannia and Kururugi Suzaku will disappear from this world”
yeah, suzaku did disappear from this world, and lelouch too? Yep, this could be a killer to your entire arguement Charred knight. However it does make me happy you used this line. As we know, suzaku did disappear however he didnt die. “our existenses are not allowed” Lellouch would follow the same, and disappear, but not die. This ties back to r2 ep 22 when CC says,
“you will do it no. BOTH of you?”
They are both doing the same thing, so if suzaku lived, then lelouch did as well.
I like how you used the line, lelouch wanted to die for the crimes he commited. I remember sometime back, sorry i cant quite remember the ep, but suzaku was talking to himself about how he wanted to die so bad, but he couldnt, his geass made him live on. It was a curse. Mhm, this would be the same as lelouch, he could want to die, but the code would prevent him. this would be a fate worse than death, that of wanting to die, but not being able to.
As for, geass being rushed ill agree, but i disagree with the fact that you claim it was poorly done. In fact it was done amazing. It connected many parts of the anime together, bringing the entire story together. Thats what a good anime does. For example, TTGL, we knew the title but we didnt know what it meant, however we did the final episode. It was the name of the godlike Gurren lagaan. So portray that in code geass terms…if the name refers to the anime, someone must have code geass??? heck yes! You cannot argue with the title. It was all laid out, it was rushed however, but it didnt change any facts about it.
Long post…
Oh yeah one last thing, i have heard about the production of the final picture drama. However if Okouchi manages to make this a wreck i will stick by my opinion. If he shows lelouch alive, then woo….=]
December 22nd, 2008 at 12:46 pm
You forgot the line “Don’t forget our promise. You must kill me and make it up by living on. Confirm the sin and the punishment. This is our pledge.”
That’s clearly meant to be taken literally, as Lelouch will be killed while Suzaku lives on as Zero.
Also Suzaku’s questioning Lelouch’s methods is clearly not about Lelouch faking his death, its clearly about Lelouch ordering his own death. His telling Lelouch to reconsider and that their must be another way while Lelouch tells him that while their is, he isn’t changing his mind.
Also it’s quite clear that Kallen loved Lelouch, she has memento’s of him, her song is about him, and she kisses him. I admire quite a few people but I am sure not going to try to make out with them.
December 22nd, 2008 at 1:02 pm
That was what he said. You have to kill me. Suzaku “killed” him… but he did it as zero, this was for the zero re;quiem.
“Our existence is not allowed. ”
and so it wasnt, suzaku had already been erased, now lelouch was to be erased.
Mhm, and suzaku questioning lelouch was to make sure that he was certain of his plan. There were indeed other ways around it, but things wouldve been denied. Such as if lelouch wouldve chosen to peacefully rule the world, Euphie would still be known as the masscre princess. However he chose to do evil so the world would forget about her, for suzakus sake. As for the
“Confirm the sin and the punishment. This is our pledge.”
They did so. They had done evil, and were hence punished. They were both to live out eternal lives. Eternal in different ways however. Suzaku would hold the legend of zero and live forever by that way, as for lelouch would physically live forever.
Her song is quite interesting, one more chance. But i really think it could also mean her brother -.-
after all, that was one of the reasons she joined zero, he was the one who inhereted her brothers dream. But…then again it could be directed towards him, it is very vague i know…
Well, i have chick friends and stuff from them, that doesnt mean that i “love” love them. I love them as friends? Nothing more than that. Admiration i say. Admiration.
December 22nd, 2008 at 1:47 pm
You ignoring everything Okouchi has stated
Lelouch wanted to live with Nunnaly so the harshest penalty he can have is to die
Suzaku wanted to die so his harshest penalty is to live on as Zero never being able to take off the mask in public, always being on guard to make sure his identity is never discovered having no one he really cares for.
Your taking something that is clearly meant to be literal (Suzaku kills Lelouch, and is forced to live the rest of his life as Zero to atone for his actions) and making it seem like Lelouch is speaking poertically even though the guy who wrote the story has stated otherwise.
I can understand wanting to interperet it but when the guy who wrote the story has stated your interpertation is wrong, than its wrong
December 22nd, 2008 at 2:44 pm
He didnt say, “zongetsu you are wrong” did he? (that’d be funny)
as for he harshest penalty, you say would be to die. Dying is not a penalty. It is the easy way out. Why do you think people commit suicide? It is because living is a burden for them. However if lelouch and suzaku wanted to they wouldnt be allowed to, suzakus geass would save him and same with lelouch’s code.
The harshest penalty for lelouch would be that of never being able to live with or see nunnally again. After she was his entire world. Thats why he carries the crane around, as a memoir of what he has lost and can never obtain. He knows that she will die, but he has to overcome it. I bet more people would agree with me on this part. Its worse than death.
and im not ignoring it. Actions mean more than words. He allowed it to be animated the way he did. Sucks for him Mhm…just to say, if i went up and TKO’d someone and then said sorry, what do you think would mean more? Do you really think that they’ll accept my apologie? nope, actions>words
and….
You sound like a child when you say, dying is a harsh penalty. Its not the dying part thats harsh, its how you die that is.
December 23rd, 2008 at 7:58 am
I have been thinking about the whole thing over the past day and I would like to say something adressing the picture dramas. The picture dramas are never really serious, they are kinda like fillers. One of the picture dramas I saw portrayed Lulu as an incest because he was telling Nunnaly what she can do to “satisfy him.” Hopefully we can all agree that Lulu dosn´t love Nunnaly in a romantic way but Ik it was ment to be funny and that´s why I don´t take them seriously. If ppl actually took picture dramas seriously, they would believe Lulu is an incest like the picture drama portrayed him to be.
As for Lulu wanting to die, I think it´s totally out of his character because as Zongetsu said, dying is the easiest way out and It´s not like Lulu to just rest in peace while his loved ones work their butts off to improve the world. As for Suzaku suffering a fate worse than death, I couldn´t disagree more, I have always thought that Suzaku was always willing to do anything to improve the world, so I see the Zero Requiem as a way for him to accomplish his wish which has always been to change Brittania and the world from within. So, I wouldn´t call it punishment for him at all.´
Charred Knight, you mentioned that all the main characters got bad endings, I couldn´t dissagree more. Kallen is now able to live happily with her mother, Nunnaly is working together with Suzaku/Zero, and Suzaku is working hard to improve the world around him. I think C.C. got the short end of the stick (which is why Lelouch must be alive in some way) Nobody can logically say she got a happy ending and she´s the second main character to Lulu.
As for Jeremiah, it dosn´t make sence for him not to even shed a tear with Lulu´s death because it has been clear throught the second season that he has a strong loyalty to Lulu. Besides, he was pissed when Clovis died in the first season and that proves that he actually cares about the Royal Family. In R2 ep 13, Jeremiah mentioned that it´s his duty to protect the Royal Family and why would he be in an orange farm instead of being with Nunnaly? We all know that Lulu would have wanted a strong person like Jeremiah to help Suzaku in protecting Nunnaly so that sounds fishy to me.
So basically I think some of the statements that the guidebook made about all main characters not getting a happy ending and Suzaku is suffering a fate worse than death is a total exaggeration. And as for the picture dramas, they are no different than those fillers that you see in Naruto and Bleach (except shorter) and besides, a six minute slideshow isn´t enough to change the ambiguity of the final episode and maybe if they made an Ova or remake of the final episode, I would agree with their statements. Besides, I don´t think there are too many ppl who watch the picture dramas because they don´t really contribute to the plot of the story, it´s just a bunch of fillers and all the ones that I saw aren´t really that serious so I doubt that I will even take the final picture drama seriously.
So in other words, the case is still going to be alive because the anime is over and majority of the viewers saw it as an ambiguous end so there´s nothing a silly picture drama can do to change the ambiguity of the anime ending.
December 23rd, 2008 at 2:32 pm
The guidebook didn’t say that they all the main characters got happy endings or that Suzaku got A Fate Worse than Death, I did. The guide just tells you what happened, not how you feel.
Taniguchi has stated that its up to the audience to decide if the ending was happy, or sad, and Okouchi has stated that he believed it was a happy ending. Of course I frequently disgree when some Japanese guy states that the latest anime series where the hero needlessly loses the girl to be a happy ending, because the villain is dead. Theirs a difference between Happily Ever After, and Nunnaly, and Suzaku have massive work to do, Suzaku can never appear in public without the Zero custom on, and Kallen lost the man she loved.
Keep in mind that Suzaku never lost his death wish, he was just geassed so he couldn’t act on it. The guide flat out states that Suzaku still wants to die, and I see Lelouch wanting to die not running away since Lelouch cared more about being with Nunnaly than killing people so him living with Nunnaly or C.C wouldn’t be much of a punishment.
Considering that C.C found her humanity, I think she got a pretty good ending. She didn’t get the guy but than no one did unless you count both Shirley, and Lelouch being dead.
As for Lelouch not loving Nunnaly romantically, just look at the last episode, all Nunnaly needed was a armor bikini, and she would have the whole Princess Leia thing down pat. Either Okouchi and Taniguchi are stupid or they intentionally did a massive incest subtext between Lelouch and Euphemia, and especially Lelouch and Nunnaly.
As for the Picture drama both the 5th and the 9th where completely serious with 5th being about Jeremiah/Orange-Kun’s past which is important for his character in Season 2, and the 9th being about Suzaku’s inner monolauge before he fights the Black Knights. I expect the final Picture Drama to be the same and give us insight into Lelouch’s death.
December 24th, 2008 at 8:10 am
Well about the C.C. part, let´s not forget that the reason why she chose not to die is because Lulu promised to make her die smiling not to give her back her humanity. As Zongetsu and I have mentioned countless times she´s going to lose her humanity again unless Lulu is with her in some way. Don´t forget in R2 ep 24 she said ¨You will make me smile right?” Meaning that she still expected Lulu to keep his promise while knowing what Zero Requiem and the anime made it clear that Lulu´s promise to C.C. was to make her die smiling not to help her regain her humanity, I have no idea where you are even getting the idea that she regained her humanity when Lulu died.
As I mentioned before, even if she makes new friends they would die eventually unlike C.C. and she will eventually loose that so called humanity again and give geass to someone else. Do you honestly think Lulu would take such a dangerous gamble to leave C.C. all alone? No because he knows perfectly well that if she´s truly alone she will give geass to someone else, thus making Lulu´s sacrifice invane. You should refer to the Mao arc and the EXACT promise he made C.C. in R2 ep 15 and R2 ep 24.
As for the picture drama, I heard it´s not going to give too much info on Lulu´s death, it´s only going to focus on Suzaku/Zero´s life with Nunnaly, along with the info of who is the new ruler of Brittania. As for the Jeremiah Picture Drama, as I mentioned before, the producers intended to keep him dead when he fought Kallen but his character popularity changed their minds completely so the same could be said about Lelouch. However, even if you didn´t see the picture dramas, you would still get what´s going on. The picture dramas are just mini fillers which give minor info on the anime but as I mentioned before, there is no way a six minute slideshow can change the ambiguity of the ending.
December 24th, 2008 at 8:48 am
@charred knight
Dude were u even reading wat geassdude said about all characters not getting a happy end? He said that the statement the stupid guidebook makes about all main characters NOT getting a happy end is a total exaggeration b/c Kallen is w/her mom, Nunnaly is w/Suzaku & Suzaku is helping Nunnaly improve the world. U call that an unhappy ending 4 them? No way, Kallen wanted 2b w/her mom which is why she fought & Nunnaly wanted 2 change the world herself & as 4 suzaku wanting 2 die thats true but lets not 4 get that he continuously mentioned that he wants 2 change the world from within & he can do that as Zero. As geassfan said, the only 1 who got the bad end is C2 unless Lulu is w/her
December 24th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
geassfan101: The reason C.C wanted to die was because she believed that no one could care for her, but Lelouch proved her wrong. Why the hell would she want to die now? I don’t see C.C being so shallow that theirs only one person in the entire world that she could live with.
Lulu Dead Pple Hater: It was a typo I meant to write that the guide DOESN’T say that all the main characters have a sad ending, I interperted it as a sad ending. In fact Taniguchi and Okouchi have both stated that they want the audience to decide if it was a happy ending or a sad ending, with Okouchi stating that he thought it was a happy ending as Lelouch didn’t die in vain.
I on the other hand interperted it as a sad ending, Lelouch is dead, Xingke is probably dead, Nunnaly, and Cornelia are decent but not great leaders, Suzaku is an idiot, Ougi’s a complete moron, and will no doubt send Japan into a mad max type world, and Schneizel is still psychotic and held on a leash by Suzaku who can’t possbily use him correctly.
The world is screwed.
December 24th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
I agree w/the last paragraph about the world being screwed & u finally admitted that u also think its fucked up so we finally have something that we agree on & its not like Lulu destroyed all the evil ppl in the world so there r many things which could go wrong with the world which Lulu created which is y he needs 2b alive in some way b/c as u said the new world is run by a bunch of mediocre ppl such as Ougi & as for Nunnaly I dont think she has the guts to fight back, she would b the type of leader who wouldn´t resort to war even if her village was attacked & Cornelia lets her emotions get in the way too much just like Suzaku. If u ask me in the end the Black Knights made themselves look like idiots b/c they turned against Lulu based on a 1 sided evidence that Schniezel gave (which we all know he didnt play their entire conversation) so in that sence they should be working in the bar w/Tamaki instead of leading the new world.
December 24th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
I have always believed that the world was screwed, but that’s the fault of the writer and Director. They got so caught up in making Lelouch look good that Okouchi never made any of the Black Knights look good. The result is that while Lelouch is presented as an uber genius, the Black Knights are incompetent morons that need Lelouch to wipe their ass.
Okouchi clearly wrote Code Geass with the intent of Lelouch to basically kill himself at the end, but he only set it up with Lelouch. So while I can look back and see why Lelouch would kill himself like he did, I don’t see how the Black Knights can fill his place like Okouchiro wants us to believe.
December 25th, 2008 at 1:05 am
Well you say the black knights never looked good, they did for a bit. It was all good until Schneizel told them about geass. Its just the same with you guys. The author said yep he’s pretty much dead and you believe every word of it. So just as you did, the black knights turned against lelouch. The person who especially annoyed me was Ougi. He seriously became a big problem, it was like DIE!!!! but he didnt.
He could have “clearly” wrote it, ntm the manga isnt finished yet, the story, however he let the animation take over. He was the one supervising it and had no objections to it. If he really wanted him to be dead, he could have shown a grave, lelouch being lowered into a grave, CC crying, but no, the ending was happy, and the song used was called “continued story”. It continues on.
If he was so dead, why even end it with CC? The kallen epilouge wouldve been perfect to end it if he was truly dead, but no, the skip to CC, and have her say. “nah, LELOUCH?”
You keep on saying okouchi wanted him dead, “died for his sins” yet, when you you look at it, everything points to him being alive, he could have ended it but he didnt.
circle back around to what i first said, the black knights did look good, Kallen ace pilot, and such, but it was betrayal that made them look bad.
December 25th, 2008 at 3:57 am
Kallen was always the only Black Knight that looked good after Lelouch left them the first time. After Lelouch abandoned them the Black Knights collapsed, and even when Lelouch came back only Kallen recovered.
The only two scenes that even suggest that Lelouch is alive is the flashback scene, and C.C statements, but both of those have been explained.
Nunnaly: She never actually show those but it was for the audiencce to show that Nunnaly understood everything. Either that or Nunnaly has magic powers
C.C: Lelouch changed her life, and she no longer feels lonely. She can live on now, and her story continues
The song is a reference to the fact that Suzaku, Kallen, Nunnaly and the minor characters story go on, Okouchi has flat out stated that Lelouch’s story is over.
December 25th, 2008 at 6:43 am
Wow, some comeback that was. Im pretty sure ive already shot down every single one of those statements but ill just say it again…
To begin with, after lelouch left the black knights the first time, most of them were still loyal to him even though he had left. Its shown because they are still held together under CC’s leadership. If CC really didnt care for lelouch, she could have left him now for he would have never known, for he had his memory altered. But after one year, they executed the plan for retrieving him
In the beginning of the second season there are only a few of them because most of them got captured in the first Black Rebellion, a few of them include Todou and Ougi. However after they were captured they rejoiced the return of Zero. Then came an infamous question from the crowd, why he left them. To this he did not answer, however todou and ougi came to his defence saying that he had rescued them now, and they wouldnt be where they were without him.
“The only two scenes that even suggest that Lelouch is alive is the flashback scene, and C.C statements, but both of those have been explained.”
WRONG, they have not been explained by anyone except the imaginary geass-net website. Geass-net does not exist. Apparently it was a troll, that i heard was spread by Cecil Gineva (spelled wrong), but yeah. Nunnally can see hearts wrong. She only has a hightend sense due to her loss of her eyes. This allows her to feel their hands actions such as trembling or increased heart rate. She is also very good at judging character, for example when Ms. Romier made that plan that was “fair” to the Japanese. She was like go redo it, i know it isnt fair.
There are countless scenes within the anime that support Lelouch being alive other than that of the flashback, and that of CC words. A few include, CC’s denial of death, Lelouch killing charles, and Witch and Warlock. I could probably add a million scenes if i wanted to.
“C.C: Lelouch changed her life, and she no longer feels lonely. She can live on now, and her story continues”
Well just to put everything together, for one, Lelouch did change her life. However if he died, she would feel lonely. Why do you think she wanted to end that “experience” in the first place? SHe has lived hundreds of years having people who loved and hated her disappear. It would just be the same, and wasnt that what she sought to end? But no, she chose to trust lelouch, as shown in r2 ep 15 by rejecting the emperors offer of death. Its really simple when you think about it.
As for the song, sure it refers to them as well, but, since CC in the final part, i believe it was aimed at her and lelouch. We all thought he died, but his story continues on.
December 25th, 2008 at 7:38 am
Except Okouchi has stated that Lelouch’s story is over
But I am sure you know more than Okouchi because he only wrote the story.
December 25th, 2008 at 8:32 am
The promise Lulu gave C.C. was to make her die smiling not to make her regain her humanity. Look back at the dialogue between her and Lulu in R2 ep 15 and R2 ep 24 and I am starting to hear rumors that the final picture drama might prove that Lelouch is dead but L.L. is born but I personally think it will be about what Gino and Kannon were doing during their time of captivity because none of them were seen in the last few scenes of the final episode (although Gino was seen in Kallens pictures)
December 25th, 2008 at 8:37 am
As for Okouchis Statement about Lulus story being at a full stop, he was referring to Lelouch vi Brittania
December 25th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Thats where youre wrong, i actually wrote the story. jk
I dont have to write anything, you just have to put the pieces together.
As for lelouchs story being over, it is, code geass was the explaination of his story and it has ended. Its just like a book, when its done its over, that doesnt mean all the characters die, it just tells us about them. For example, Harry potter finished not too long ago. His story was over, he defeated the bad guy and lived on. Same here, he recreated the world, and lived on.
and at Geassfan, chill, it wont be that bad. Whats done is done, and we all know what the truth is, he lived, and nobody can change that, not even Okouchi.
December 27th, 2008 at 11:54 am
No the Harry Potter books have ended, but Harry’s story continues. Rowling has stated that Harry becomes an Auror. Okouchi has stated that Lelouch is dead.
As for Geassfan101, now I understand, I was talking about Lelouch Vi Britannia whose creator Okouchi has stated is dead, your talking about Claude Lelouch, French Film director.
Seriously its made clear in interviews that his talking about Lelouch the person, and not Lelouch the mask.
Also I highly doubt that Okouchi is going to personally write the final picture drama to be about two characters no one cares aboutl. No one cares about what Gino and Kanon do after the series is over but everyone wants to see how the cast is taking it on a personal level.
December 27th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Wow…took you long enough to answer, for a moment i thought that you gave up, but i guess i was wrong…
So if you really read harry potter, you would have realized, that just as in code geass, the main character gets “hit” with something that kills them. Lelouch got stabbed by a sword, and Harry got hit by the killing curse “Avada Kedavra”. However, if lelouch truley did die, it would contradict the very last thing they put in the anime, that would be the CC scene, thus contradicting most of it anyways.
Both were able to survive due to supernatural reasons. Instead of harry dying after being hit by “Avada Kedavra”, voldemorts last soul fragment died (well, third to last). Lelouch was able to live because of his code. Another other way, it would contradict itself.
and …you can say okouchi said this and that, its your only proof….for every thing you say, i can say a hundred to counter it…
also, if okouchi said so much…what did he say about CC?
last of all, where did you get that quote.
“That’s right. Lelouch Vi Britannia and Kururugi Suzaku will disappear from this world on the same time. Our existence is not allowed. ”
It’s then followed up by the line
Suzaku questioned Lelouch if there is no other way.
“NO!” Lelouch answered immediately.
“Lelouch Vi Britannia and Kururugi Suzaku will disappear from this world”
December 27th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
I generally spend Christmas time with family
Except this Christmas when I spent it watching King Gainer, a much better show that Okouchi also wrote. Though in that case the actual creator was Tomino while Okouchi only just wrote it unlike Code Geass where he was the scenario writer.
Since the creator of Code Geass won’t change your mind I don’t have a clue how I could, your just too much in denial.
Though if the new Code Geass announcement is about a sequel than Lelouch will most likely be revealed to be alive by the end of episode 1 since Sunrise apparently wants to turn CG into the next gundam, and they can’t do it without Lelouch.
December 28th, 2008 at 6:27 am
okay…so you totally ingnored my question….where did you get this quote….
“That’s right. Lelouch Vi Britannia and Kururugi Suzaku will disappear from this world on the same time. Our existence is not allowed. ”
It’s then followed up by the line
Suzaku questioned Lelouch if there is no other way.
“NO!” Lelouch answered immediately.
“Lelouch Vi Britannia and Kururugi Suzaku will disappear from this world”
And, i spent my christmas watching all of gundam 00 and its second season. And just as sunrise likes to do, they put the reasoning behind the title in the final episode…gundam 00, now we know what it is.
December 28th, 2008 at 6:48 am
They come from the short story Mutuality
December 28th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Well the fact is that Okouchi didn´t make everything completely clear in the anime such as Nunnaly seeing Lulu´s memories why C.C.´s mood changed all of a sudden. The geass mobile site has proven to be fake because there is nobody who was able to provide a link to it and unless someone shows us a link for all we know it´s fake. So until then the Nunnaly thing is still in question.
As for us being in “denial” as I mentioned before, the ppl who say that Lulu is alive is providing scenes from the anime to prove their point while the Lulu dead camp uses words alone. Nobody from the Lulu dead camp can even provide scenes from the anime to prove us wrong and I think Okouchi personally feels sorry for the Lulu dead camp which is why he is making a lame picture drama to help you because you have no visual evidence to prove your poiint.
Besides, as Lulu dead ppl mentioned, there is a term called think outside the box, and I think we can all agree that Code Geass is the type of anime which makes people reflect. If you actually THINK about the entire series along with every conversation throught the series, you can conclude that the mask “Lelouch vi Brittania” is dead. If you actually go back and watch the first season, the Royal Family considered Lelouch and Nunnaly “dead” from the moment they were sent to Japan so it goes to show how Code Geass constantly refers to “metaphoric deaths” as you say.
If you think about it, the mask thing makes perfect sence because there were many masks of Lelouch: “Lelouch Lamperouge” who is the average teenager, “Lelouch vi Brittania” the exiled prince who wants revenge on Brittania, and “Zero” the hero of the people. At the end of the day those 3 identities are masks that Lelouch wears. The masks of Lelouch are all different in their own way (which is obvious if you observe those 3 sides of Lelouch closely)
If you want more proof of this, listen to the short dialogue between C.C. and Kaguya in R2 episode 25. C.C. tells Kaguya “Kaguya, you didnt know of Lelouch´s face until recently, yet you were able to understand a part of his true nature, you are a gentle person.” So if you think about that quote, it basically says that “Zero” is only PART of Lulu´s true nature so therefore it´s a mask and in the last few episodes it became obvious that “Lelouch vi Brittania” is just another mask. Don´t forget when Suzaku was about to stab Lulu he said “Destroy the enemy of the world, LELOUCH VI BRITTANIA” notice how specific he was in that statement.
For those who say that Lulu being revived with the code would waste his sacrifice, here´s some food for thought: How do you think the people would react if they found out that Suzaku Kururugi is alive? That would automatically waste Lulu´s sacrifice because the plan was for both of them to be enemies of the world and as Zongetsu said in R2 episode 22 C.C. said “You will both do this, right?” (or something like that) so if you were to put it that way, Lulu being alive as an immortal who is isolated from the world isnt really a waste of his sacrifice because the world is united once again so he can now start a new life with C.C.
I just hate it when the Lulu dead group says that we are in “denial” because it shows how much anime evidence they lack to prove us wrong and it shows that they arent willing to refect deeply on an anime as great as Code Geass. The alive/dead debate is still alive in many forums and I have been checking the Lulu dead or alive polls in each forum lately and surprisingly all the polls say he´s alive despite what Okouchi or Sunrise says.
As I have mentioned multiple times Okouchi/Sunrise hasnt really made a cannon pairing meaning that that part is for us to decide because there is enough evidence that he cares about C.C.,Kallen, and Shirley. Even the guidebook mentioned that the only ones he loved are Nunnaly and Euphy (which can be proven wrong using evidence from the anime) so I see the dead/alive case the same way and of course the official sources won´t say he´s alive because it would confirm the LuluxC.C. pairing and they want us to decide who he actually loves given the evidence in the anime and depending on your perspective of the anime, you can make the conclusion of whether or not he got the code. Fyi, speaking of pairings, the LuluxC.C. pairing has always been the most popular throught the series and that pairing has been on the front page of multiple magazines and Sunrise collaborates with the people who make the Newtype magazines so therefore you can guess that Sunrise supports the LuluxC.C. pairing along with the fans. We all know that Kallen has been the fanservice character of Code Geass and if they wanted a cover only for the sake of attraction, they would have put Kallen in those covers instead of C.C.
As for Sunrise´s guidebook, I have mentioned multiple times that the only reason why they are going with Okouchi´s words is because they wanted to cut him some slack because they gave Okouchi and Taniguchi a hard time throught the production of Code Geass and the guidebook is Sunrise´s way of apologizing to the authors for all the pressure they put them through. But that dosn´t mean they believe he´s dead because if they firmly stood by that belief, they wouldn´t have shown the flashback scenes and they would have changed C.C. final line but they didn`t because they wanted the viewers to decide what happened to him.
Furthermore, if you actually THINK about everything that happened throught the series, you will be able to find contradictions in Okouchi´s statements and I believe that Okouchi made those random statements to test us to see whether or not we would reflect on the anime and match it with the perspective he mentioned in the interview. As for picture dramas, I take back what I said about them being like fillers, now I think they are as useless as the Shinigami Cup dramas at the end of each Bleach episode. Despite the differences in our perspectives, I think we can all agree that the anime still makes sence without the picture dramas so therefore it dosn´t really factor much into the anime. However, I think that if Okouchi makes the picture drama about Lulu´s death, it´s because he feels sorry for the Lulu dead camp because they have no visual evidence to prove us wrong.
December 28th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Huh
First you claim that Okouchi’s interview was nothing more than a bone thrown to some mythical Lelouch is dead fandom. If Okouchi wanted to throw a bone he would have claimed that lelouch had code, and that he ended up with C.C as Lelouch and C.C is by far the most popular pairing since Kallen’s fandom disseapeared due to the whole Black Knights debacle.
Then you claim that its merely Okouchi testing the faithful, than you go right back to Okouchi feeling sorry for them. Okouchi has flat out stated that Lelouch’s death was planned from the very begenning and if you look at the first episode it makes sense, Lelouch himself states that those willing to kill must be prepared to be killed.
As for you visual evidence, all you have managed to show us is that two scenes could be interperted as Lelouch being alive, with Okouchi’s statements, most people I know have interpeted them to mean something else.
Okouchi and Taniguchi wanted to make an artful work, but sadly Sunrise, and Bandai forced them to constantly play for the fanbases but Okouchi wouldn’t let the fanbases determin his ending, and I applaud that, it shows that he didn’t work with Tomino on Turn A Gundam, and King Gainer for nothing.
December 28th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
No, for the Lulu alive arguement there are many scenes throught the entire series which indicate the foreshadowing of him being alive. Zongetsu and I mentioned most of them already. And not even Okouchi mentioned the artistic part of Nunnaly seeing Lulu´s memories so now you are simply making things up.
December 28th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
About the LuluxC.C. fandom, it has existed since the first season and even in the second season it was still more popular than the LuluxKallen fandom. The series has even hinted LuluxC.C. multiple times and as for LuluxKallen, ask yourself this: Why wasn´t Gino killed? There were multiple opportunities for him to die and I personally thought he was kinda useless. But the reason why he was left alive was to become a potential lover for Kallen and although there wasn´t much interaction between them throught the series, the fact is that the reason why he is alive was for the sake of the GinoxKallen fandom which became popular towards the end.
It´s obvious that the anime dosn´t even reflect Okouchi´s vision because his mangas don´t contain any romantic hints at all and almost everyone knew from the very beginning that Lelouch was going to die due to the similarities in the concepts of Code Geass and Death Note. However, it was the LuluxC.C. moments (specifically in season 1 ep 25, and the last few episodes of R2) that made people think that Lulu might not die after all and as far as the ANIME ITSELF, it was an open end and the fact is that majority thought that he was alive.
Zongetsu provided an interesting example of Harry Potter and Charred Knight mentioned JK Rowling´s words. However, the difference between Code Geass and Harry Potter is that Harry Potter is a clear story while Code Geass is filled with ambiguity and besides anyone would have guessed in the end that Harry became an Auror and Rowling confirmed it and the reason why people guessed that Harry would be an Auror is because it was made clear in the story. Code Geass on the other hand has tons of ambiguity and double meanings, so therefore it could be interpreted in multiple ways and nobody (Not even Okouchi) can refute that.
In the end the whole alive/dead debate comes down to our perspective and Okouchi never said that his way is the only way to look at the series. In my opinion, as long as you have evidence to prove a statement, it´s correct. If you want further evidence of Lulu getting the code, read the explanation in the following link. Perhaps it will clear up what we are trying to say.
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=54714
December 29th, 2008 at 3:38 am
So, why dont you explain the last scene???
Im pretty sure ive never heard okouchi explain it. However, your mind has been warped by the false information of geass-net. If the troll had never spread, then you wouldnt believe what you believed. Geass-net says something like this…
“Knowing that Lelouch does not hate her for giving him the Geass, she is now able to show her true feelings. With the realization of “Zero Requiem”, her time with Lelouch, who was able to forgive and accept her, came to an end, but the memories created with him has, without doubt, saved her from eternal loneliness.”
Thats an evil troll right there…its so false i can believe you guys believe it
Besides, as i said before, if Okouchi wanted him dead so much, he would have made it obvious, the final scene however contradicted it. What do you think? Was the last scene truly important? If it had just ended with the Kallen epilouge, surely i wouldve believed him to be dead, but it didnt, did it?
December 29th, 2008 at 10:09 am
I have always believed that Lelouch is dead simply because its the best ending, it shows that Lelouch was not Charles, that he was willing to die for his cause while Charles was not. I could give a flying rats ass about C.C and Lelouch being together because it makes Lelouch no better than Charles, and I shipped Leloucest anyway.
I was certainly glad when I read the portion of Okouchi’s interview that comfirmed my feelings and was delighted when the guide spelled out my feelings crystal clear, my faith in Okouchi was somewhat rewarded. Lelouch was not Charles, while Charles could kill millions and be fine, Lelouch was tortured by the deaths he caused, and so ordered his own death. Brilliant, and Ballsy on the part of Okouchi.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Well you are entitled to your opinion but you should understand that there are multiple point of views for an anime as ambiguous as Code Geass and since Code Geass had many double meanings, Okouchi´s explanation isn´t necessarily the only answer to the series. As I mentioned before, the whole dead/alive case depends on how you view the anime. However, it dosn´t change the fact that Code Geass is an anime with ambiguity and double meanings and as long as we have evidence to prove out point, it´s valid regardless of what Okouchi or anyone else says.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Agreed with Geassfan101, you are entitled to your own opinion, even if it is right or wrong.
But just saying, your explaination isnt complete. You only believe he is dead because that is what you want, and because of what youve heard. Imaging, if Okouchi had never said anything, would you believe as much?
Look at the facts i have deprived from the anime, from that, can you even a little bit believe he is alive?
Is the reason why you believe lelouch to be dead the best ending because death is a way to atone for your sins? Wrong, death is not the right way, a better way to atone for your sins is to live. Its just as i put it a while ago. If you wanted them to suffer for their actions, instead of dying why not have them live?
Its just like a suicidal person, life is hell for them, death is the easy path out of it. However can Lelouch die? No, so just as the suicidal person, life would be hell, intern making him suffer more. Its how he can atone for it.
December 29th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Charred Knight: I’m pretty sure that Geassfan101 and zongetsu are trolls. There’s really no other explanation.
December 29th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
I wish i was a troll lol, but im more like a troll KILLER =]
wait….i know this kid from somewhere…miasmacloud…i swear to god this is that one dude who claimed that code geass was unplanned in the second season due to an interview from taniguchis wife…and then made a huge statement on why lelouch is dead using the interviews…
yes, i remember reading your blog sometime back, back when i was in search for answers. Yes, i should find it again. Yes i found it…and i see that you have already met ZingFreelancer…haha
http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/10/06/as-an-overanalyzer-i-would-have-to-say-that-lelouch-is-dead/
(the link to the “over-analysis” by miasmacloud on why lelouch is srlsy dead)
Yes….Miasmacloud=schneizel lover…thats kinda awkward, but okay
Geassfan, it looks like we have another person stepping up to the batting plate. I wonder what he will do…
December 29th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
>>i swear to god this is that one dude who claimed that code geass was unplanned in the second season due to an interview from taniguchis wife…and then made a huge statement on why lelouch is dead using the interviews…
…What? See, this is why I’m saying you’re a troll.
http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/08/19/taniguchi-on-geass-not-as-planned/
^— At no point do I say anything remotely like what you just said.
December 29th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
(Actually, be specific, I didn’t even say much at all except that the commentary that I posted — not wrote myself — is the words of someone else who I refer to as Tamaki’s Girlfriend.)
December 29th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
there you go….im not a troll after all?
Yes, its hard to SPECIFICALLY remember all of these things you know. Wife/girlfriend, same thing all together, point is, you did, post and comment on the subject of R2 being unplanned. Believe it or not, i actually read that btw, and all you really learn from that is that he was frustrated wanted to quit and didnt.
Yes…i almost got you there…
I put it last for a reason you know. Ntm i also put it in parenthesis
(the link to the “over-analysis” by miasmacloud on why lelouch is srlsy dead)
In that line alone i never said anything about taniguchi. So, you almost criticized me for being right there…
I seperate what i want to say because for one, it looks better, and two, its easier to read.\
And so…youve basically said, what ive already said, so lets get down to business….why do you think lelouch is dead????
December 29th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
>>i swear to god this is that one dude who claimed that code geass was unplanned in the second season
>>point is, you did, post and comment on the subject of R2 being unplanned
>>claimed
>>post and comment
You realize those are entirely different statements? Do you also realize that “interview with Taniguchi’s wife” is completely different from “pasting an interview commentary from a girl who is nicknamed Tamaki’s girlfriend”? Taniguchi is a, you know, real person and Tamaki’s Girlfriend is an internet alias. You’re not making yourself look better by saying it’s hard to specifically remember shit. Also, why are you asking for my thoughts on the subject when you’ve already linked to the place where I expressed them?
You seem to express some sentiments against being called a troll yet you just continue to prove yourself one. Why would I want to bother going into some back and forth with a troll about this?
December 29th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
Miasmaknight why don´t you try proving to us why Lulu is dead instead of calling us trolls, it just goes back to what I said before about the Lulu dead ppl just saying we are in “denial” because they have no evidence from the anime to prove us wrong.
Charred Knight was at least willing to combat our beliefs with his but you aren´t even trying to prove your point. The reason why we called the mobile geass site a troll is because NOBODY has been able to provide a link to prove it exists and now you are calling us trolls for pointing out facts in the anime? Evidently, you have alot to learn about what is evidence and what is not.
Zongetsu and I have been using specific scenes/quotes from the anime to prove our arguements so therefore it´s valid because Code Geass is an anime which contains tons of ambiguity/double meanings. If you want to prove us wrong, you will have to do a better job in defending your arguement.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:43 am
Pictures of the Geass Mobile site:
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4800/p1020453sc6.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1276/p1020459nf4.jpg
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/4926/p1020463rn0.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7397/p1020472nz6.jpg
Geass Mobile is a cellphone-only access subscription. You’re not getting a “link” to it unless you move to Japan and buy a cellphone and subscribe.
>>Zongetsu and I have been using specific scenes/quotes from the anime to prove our arguements so therefore it´s valid because Code Geass is an anime which contains tons of ambiguity/double meanings. If you want to prove us wrong, you will have to do a better job in defending your arguement.
See, this is, yet again, why I think you’re both trolls, because, to repeat from my previous comment:
>>Also, why are you asking for my thoughts on the subject when you’ve already linked to the place where I expressed them?
zongetsu already found the place where I expressed my views. That particular blog poll is entirely based off of quotes from the anime. Yet both of you have asked me to explain something by now. Not reading but finding a way to drag on the discussion just says, “I’m trolling”. Calling me “MiasmaKnight” is pretty elementary schoolesque and trolly: The last time I was involved with a discussion with Charred Knight, we didn’t get along at all. And zongetsu going, “Yes….Miasmacloud=schneizel lover…thats kinda awkward, but okay” as if that’s remotely relevant to the topic doesn’t help. Saying that when I have not brought him up, or saying that like as if that matters in regards to whether I think Lelouch is dead or alive or not… It’s really hard to think you’re anything other than trolls.
Do you think I have actually come here to argue or explain about Lelouch’s death? Frankly, the only thing that puts me in disbelief here is zongetsu claiming to be a “troll killer” when all he’s done is troll. I would be happy to argue that.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:47 am
Sigh, my comment got flagged for moderation because I put too many links in it.
Uploaded screenshots someone took with a digicam of Geass Net: http://sphere211.org/geassnet/
Geass Mobile is a cellphone-only access subscription. You’re not getting a “link” to it unless you move to Japan and buy a cellphone and subscribe.
>>Zongetsu and I have been using specific scenes/quotes from the anime to prove our arguements so therefore it´s valid because Code Geass is an anime which contains tons of ambiguity/double meanings. If you want to prove us wrong, you will have to do a better job in defending your arguement.
See, this is, yet again, why I think you’re both trolls, because, to repeat from my previous comment:
>>Also, why are you asking for my thoughts on the subject when you’ve already linked to the place where I expressed them?
zongetsu already found the place where I expressed my views. That particular blog poll is entirely based off of quotes from the anime. Yet both of you have asked me to explain something by now. Not reading but finding a way to drag on the discussion just says, “I’m trolling”. Calling me “MiasmaKnight” is pretty elementary schoolesque and trolly: The last time I was involved with a discussion with Charred Knight, we didn’t get along at all. And zongetsu going, “Yes….Miasmacloud=schneizel lover…thats kinda awkward, but okay” as if that’s remotely relevant to the topic doesn’t help. Saying that when I have not brought him up, or saying that like as if that matters in regards to whether I think Lelouch is dead or alive or not… It’s really hard to think you’re anything other than trolls.
Do you think I have actually come here to argue or explain about Lelouch’s death? Frankly, the only thing that puts me in disbelief here is zongetsu claiming to be a “troll killer” when all he’s done is troll. I would be happy to argue that.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:58 am
Well, maybe it would help if i had read it recently, but no, that was a long time ago…
How do you expect me to remeber everything so clearly? Point is again…you still, posted/commented on evidence of code geass r2 being unplanned…but who really cares anyway. The other point is, why do you think lelouch is dead? Eh?
Yes…i do know your thoughts and opinions, however do you have any to counter mine?? All yours is is just some chopped up sentences, taken from the anime. Some over analyzation that was.
Okay i just want to point out something in your analysis
C.C.: You don’t want it to end here, do you? It appears that you have a reason to live. If you have power, will you be able to live? (S1 01)
Lelouch: Living for the sake of dying is far too tragic! (R2 15)
To which you said:
Lelouch’s ideology on life/death can summarized as this: A life with only death is far too sad. If you’re going to die, make it meaningful.
What I say is this, if these statements were as you say they are…they would contradict the final scene in the anime. Also I in no way figure how you can conclude “If youre going to die, make it meaningful” from either of those quotes.
However, that really only applies to lelouch, what about CC? In no way can she die. If you rewind to r2 ep 15, you see that one, she couldve given lelouch power, because he had a reason to live.
“if you have a reason to live, then kill me, do that and you will obtain the same power as charles …the power to fight. Farewell lelouch, you are too gentle of a person.”
In actuality…he didnt need to kill her, she couldve forced it upon him just as the nun did to her. This would give him the power to live/ to fight. But would it grant her wish? CC had lived hundreds of years, wanted to end that “experience”, the experience of living alone in the world, watching people vanish. We know that this experience made her lonely, pretty much suicidal, but she couldnt die…so why in the end was she happy? She wouldnt want to continue that experience, but start a new one, a better one.
Her death and existence wouldve been…”unmeaningful”. However, Lelouch was CC reason to live, to fight on. If you switch their statements around, the ones you used, they would almost be correct…
If lelouch had given CC the power to live on, his love, and CC protecting Lelouch from a life living to die, then the ending would make perfect sense. Ntm the crane, the CC wagon ending all supports this. Dont go Okouchi said hes dead so hes dead. If he really wanted to make him dead so much, why didnt he make it obvious? No, getting stabbed with a sword is not obvious. In ep1 CC got shot in the head and we thought she died, she didnt. Or guiford gettin hit by fleia. It only makes sense this way.
Come on Mr. “OVER ANALYZER” if you really analyzed it, what do you see? Can you not believe one bit that he is alive?
December 30th, 2008 at 2:11 am
zongetsu, I’m a girl. Certainly the fact that there’s a tag on Code Trainwreck labeled “Fangirl Power” should have tipped you off.
Your whole argument is assuming that I’m a desperate Lelouch x CC shipper who would agree with absolutely anything to see them together. This is evident by your use of CC’s “relationship” with Lelouch as the bulk of your argument. It’s also evident because your MAL post is in the “Lelouch x CC” club. It also proves nothing and ignores all other external factors making it completely flawed at the foundation. Namely, you haven’t exactly said where/how/why Lelouch would get a Code, nor do you present any proof that he has a Code. Him having a Code is the only way he’d be alive, which is what the argument should be about rather than character shipping-based non-sense. If you can prove that Lelouch has a Code, then do so. Take a less pairing-centric approach with me, quit trolling, and maybe I’ll actually reply.
December 30th, 2008 at 3:06 am
Well there are many instances of the series which deals with shipping which is why there were LuluxKallen moments, LuluxShirley moments, and LuluxC.C. moments and which “external factors” are you talking about? If you actually read my previous posts, I mentioned that Sunrise did hint that they were leaning toward the LuluxC.C. pairng because all the magazines they sponsor always have a pic of Lulu and C.C. If they were doing it for the sake of attraction, they would have put Kallen in the front page instead of C.C. because Kallen is the fanservice character of Code Geass.
The difference between the LuluxC.C. shipping and all the rest of the shippings is that the LuluxC.C. relationship contributed to both of their character developments throught the entire series. In R2 episode 15, Lulu gave C.C. a reason to live and likewise C.C. gave her support to Lelouch when Euphy died and when Lelouch found out that he must fight Nunnaly so therefore it did have relevance to the series unlike the other shippings.
As I mentioned before, as long as we have evidence to back up our statements, it is valid despite what anyone says. So why don´t you actually try to fight back with your evidence instead of calling us “trolls” and “desperate LuluxC.C. shippers” You can´t deny that their relationship actually contributed to their own character development and of course Sunrise/Okouchi won´t actually support a pairing out loud because that´s for us to decide.
Btw if you actually read Zongetsu´s explanation, it does mention how/when/how and where he got the code. It clearly mentions that Lelouch vi Brittania is dead but he is reborn as L.L. And the LuluxC.C. part of his arguement has relevance to it because she decided to live because of Lelouch and Lelouch dying would completely contradict the promise he made her. Here´s the link and try to read it closely this time.
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=54714
December 30th, 2008 at 3:10 am
>>The main reason he didn’t die right here and now was that he had the code that he took from his father. Back in r2 ep 21, Lelouch was able to stop Charles plan by geassing the gods “to not stop the progress of time”. In order to do this he developed a mature geass. With geass in both eyes, one obtains the power to take a code. Some people may not agree with crossings stuff like this but then you got to think again, if charles can take CCs code, then why cant Lelouch take charles? In CC case, the code was forced upon her without any choice, while in charles case he took it from VV.
>>that he took from his father
Okay, let me simplify this: Prove that he took it from his father.
December 30th, 2008 at 3:13 am
On that matter, prove that he actually had a Code after ep 22 so I know where you’re coming from by saying he took it from his father in the first place.
December 30th, 2008 at 3:14 am
Er, episode 21.
December 30th, 2008 at 3:22 am
Since Geass101 is a little kid and will only speak at MAL, I’ll just reply here.
>>Yes, the part where Nunnaly sees his memories. How would you explain that?
…how is that proof? Why would that be proof that he has a Code? That is completely irrelevant because it looks nothing like the other sequences in which you touch C.C. and memories are shown. Furthermore the situations and circumstances regarding the scenes are so radically different that they’re just plain incomparable. If it was Geass-related, why wouldn’t there be the usual screen or sequence?
December 30th, 2008 at 3:42 am
Excuse me? The personal attacks aren´t necessary and it makes you look like a little kid. Also, when has it been a crime for looking at Code Geass through a different perspective? Are you so arrogant that you think your view is the only view which matters?
As we mentioned countlessly, the code activates when a person dies and that never happened until R2 episode 25 and how can you prove that Nunnaly didn´t see his memories during the flashbacks? Code Geass isn´t the type of anime that throws in random flashbacks for no reason and that´s what started the confusion in the first place.
The only factors which kept Lulu´s death ambiguous in the final episode are the flashback scenes, C.C.´s final line, and the crane in the end. There is nothing that can be done at this point to change the ambiguity of the final episode and in fact I have seen many forum polls recently which still say that he´s alive.
Also you said “Furthermore the situations and circumstances regarding the scenes are so radically different that they’re just plain incomparable.” Well don´t you think it´s alittle strange that the flashback occured immediatly after Nunnaly touched Lulu´s hand?
Furthermore, the anime can be compared to a puzzle because there is plenty of ambiguity/double meanings which give people a different perspective of the series and you have to use your head to find a connection between all the peices of the puzzle (which in this case is the entire anime).
December 30th, 2008 at 3:50 am
>>As we mentioned countlessly, the code activates when a person dies and that never happened until R2 episode 25
So you’re saying:
- 2 eyed Geass
- Code
- Die
- Code activates
Yet the order of the events went:
- 2 eyed Geass
- Nunnally “sees”
- Lelouch dies
You realize you just contradicted yourself? In order for Nunnally to see his memories, he’d have to die first, but he was stabbed, fell down, and was still alive when she touched him.
December 30th, 2008 at 3:51 am
Furthermore, where is the proof that you have to die before your Code activates?
December 30th, 2008 at 4:21 am
eh? Whats wrong with masochist guy? Whats his problem?
He is asking to prove something?
Prove? Prove that Lelouch got his fathers code…? If you have such a request, then please prove that God exists.
Prove that universe been created by “The big bang”
Go ahead, do it! Prove that you have more IQ then 50!
Impossible? Baaaka!
“Guilty until proven otherwise” something that I like to say, it can be said otherwise too, “Dead until proven otherwise” when it comes to Lelouch. Because “they” want us to believe it, so he is officially dead.
But we are a group of many people who believe that he isn’t dead, we believe that because we seen something you haven’t. Or maybe you just deny it because it suits you the best?
That is our believe, we don’t have to prove anything to any one. Especially to the likes of you. Who troll on forum’s like you do.
If you can’t digests that other people is actually smarter then you and can see thus things/hints and give them meaning, then you are just not as intelligent as you wish to believe. How simple is that?
I know that, because I’ve been there.
December 30th, 2008 at 4:23 am
The only trolls I see here are you. Try again.
Furthermore you’re still not providing proof that you have to die before a Code activates.
December 30th, 2008 at 4:31 am
To conclude everything, Code Geass is a trainwreck, deal with it.
There is 1000 times more unexplained things then explained. For instance, in Bloodstained Euphmia episode. When Suzaku somehow sees C.C. outside Gaiwen (Like Lelouch seen something outside the truch that Kallen and her brother stole)
Then C.C. comes out and ask him if he might be, then interrupted by Lelouch geass evolving.
We might have been hinted on to that he was able to use “Live on” geass to such extend, but that was pretty vague, agree?
With the final battle vs Cornelia?
They come to roof and Lelouch says “It looks similar…” Then C.C. continues “Yes, like the Aries Imperial Villa”
Lelouch like all surprised “Why do you know about that?” C.C. like “I tell you some other day”
Did that ever got told properly? Cant remember that, maybe my memories are failing me?
There is quite a lot of this kid of gaps and contradictions.
So who ever says that Code Geass is perfectly executed and have perfectly concluded the story, should put his head into a blender and push start.
December 30th, 2008 at 4:35 am
Nice, I am a troll. I dont hide it xD
Very glad you have noticed that so quickly!
Why dont you prove that you dont have to die in order to activate Code?
I know why
That will actually take REAL work and intelligence. Jumping to conclusion; You are lazy and stupid.
Not? Prove it
December 30th, 2008 at 4:36 am
Look, are you going to explain why you think you have to die before a Code activates or not? For that matter, are you going to explain why you believe in a contradictory order of events to explain what Nunnally sees?
You’re the ones who are in the position to explain something here, not me.
Talking on your MAL club, saying that you “know the truth” then turning to some kind of, “this is just what I believe, why don’t you accept that?” is extremely contradictory. Saying that you all have “proof from the show” then saying “the show is so flawed and unexplained” is also extremely contradictory. So, zongetsu and Geass101, do you not understand why I keep saying “you’re trolls”?
December 30th, 2008 at 4:50 am
Our theories have already been explained. Its your turn now to explain why you think they are false.
The explanation is out there at MAL, because MAL like any other web community have brought us together.
But since you are lazy and incompetent, you just keep on shielding yourself with pathetic comments like that.
Are you 10 year old boy or something?
Or you got too much female hormones under gestation?
Oh, wait, I think I found something interesting about you
I’m a fansubber, the reigning Tyrant Overlord of gg, so you get to hear me bitch about how much I hate my staff too!
History
From May until September, I ran a Code Geass blog called Code Trainwreck, then bought this domain as a joke later in October and ended up turning into a general whatever blog.
December 30th, 2008 at 4:55 am
You say those things like they’re relevant, troll.
And no, your “theories” haven’t been explained. Refer to this:
>>Look, are you going to explain why you think you have to die before a Code activates or not? For that matter, are you going to explain why you believe in a contradictory order of events to explain what Nunnally sees?
How am I supposed to even try to explain why they’re false if you’re not answering these questions or explaining your beliefs properly to me? Or is the full extent of your argument is, “Lelouch has a Code because Nunnally touched his hand and saw his memories and you have to die before your Code activates”? If so, I already disproved that by laying down the timeline and showing where your own theory contradicts itself. So does this mean I’ve disproved your entire theory, or is there more to it? Are you going to answer me or not?
December 30th, 2008 at 4:59 am
Wow, I just spent 30 minutes reading everything and all I got was some bullshit like this:
>>Why dont you prove that you don’t have to die in order to activate Code?
>>Not? Prove it
Honestly, what the fuck man. It’s not like I’m siding with anyone, but I honestly think you’re retarded.
You make me recall the whole rainbow-reindeer argument in my cooking class.
A: “Rainbow reindeers exist in this world!”
B: “No they don’t.”
A: “Yes they do!! Prove that they don’t exist!!”
In other words, you are the one who suggested that Lelouch is alive, so you should be the one who proves that he’s alive, not asking the opposite side to prove that he’s dead.
Stop trolling already and prove that he’s alive. (I am a Lelouch x Kallen fag like you guys -v-)
December 30th, 2008 at 5:05 am
Eeeeh, you are taking half the fun out of it Jaka
But it already have been explained, even a link have been provided in the original blog post.
http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=6836&time=1230581717
Go read the front page dude, it all there. When you read it, prove otherwise
December 30th, 2008 at 5:10 am
I see just see a whole load of assumptions.
Just picking one out:
>2) Back in the world of C, Lelouch matured his geass, and “killed” a person with immortality, his father. This probably transferred his CODE to lelouch for once one has a mature geass they gain the power to get immortality.
>probably
I assume you know what probably implies.
Putting that aside, all I see in here are just trolls trying to be “different” from what everyone else thinks, in other words, that Lelouch is dead.
December 30th, 2008 at 5:15 am
Nods in agreement.
But we arent that different, there is a lot of people who think and want to believe that Lelouch is alive.
Besides, that PROBABLY what happened, but his father PROBABLY wanted him to have the code. Or maybe PROBABLY the code got transferred to him by default. Or PROBABLY… I can continue pretty far with that stuff.
But do you get my point?
December 30th, 2008 at 5:22 am
Yeah, I get your point.
But look, I feel for you.
I understand you don’t want to acknowledge that Lelouch is dead. (I’ve been through this whole thing from Elfen Lied)
I also want to believe that Lelouch is alive. But nearly all of the evidence is pointing towards the side of “He is dead”. So in a logical and troll-less fashion, it is only reasonable to say that he is dead.
Sad, I know, but that’s what makes the world go round, bro.
December 30th, 2008 at 5:46 am
It isn’t. This is matter of how you look at it and from where I stand, it looks pretty interesting…
I dont know, but when I try to make up a conclusion on Code Geass, there is just too many “maybe’s” coming in my way. Nothing is 100% ironclad in this anime and I like that, there is various people who have various opinions that we can argue with. Have our own little battle, always fun
There is also the official interview that makes me rather intrigued, generally the ending as it is was perfect, but it also was a trainwreck. Just look at the outcome!!! We are still arguing whether or not he is alive.
Why I am so intrigued by official statement? Because it ruins the general popularity of Code Geass. If things was left as they were pre-interview, every one would have their own beef. Except lelouch is alive group, they would probably have the biggest beef. But rather then that, Sunrise decides to pull the plug and disappoint the “Lulu alive group”
Some people say it was their way to say “Sorry, we screwed up R2 badly”
But for me, its just makes no sense, unless they have something in mind that we are yet to witness.
December 30th, 2008 at 6:30 am
…what is this I don’t-
I really don’t understand how it is “perfect” and a “trainwreck” at the same time…
It can only be one… make up your mind, bro
December 30th, 2008 at 7:08 am
Hard to swallow, eh? But I was a bit wrong in my statement, the ending is good, can be called perfect. Perhaps it is better to say that anime it self was a trainwreck, because it just left so many things unexplained. Its like having 5 different plates with food, you taste food from every single plate, but never eat from any of them. In the end you are still hungry.
December 30th, 2008 at 8:46 am
Well in R2 episode 15 Charles said “Defeat me with the power of Kings, and you shall surpass the power of Kings,” and we all know that Charles actually died back there. Lelouch did defeat Charles by using Geass on the collective consciousness. So, therefore he does have the code. If Lulu didn´t get the code, it would contradict the quote that Charles made. Therefore it would be another example of why Code Geass is an anime with ambiguity/double meanings. So therefore anyone can get the idea that he got the Code because he´s the one who defeated Charles.
Believe it or not, there are plenty of people who still believe that Lulu is alive despite what the official sources say. In order to understand the whole L.L. thing, you first have to understand the concept of the “masks” which were presented several times during R2. Also, I believe that the second ending suggests it somewhat because the first scene of the ending is Lulu (with wings) in C.C.´s arms. Also, the first opening of both season 1 and R2 showed Lulu riding a horse, which has never really correlated to the anime at all unless you count the final scene of the final episode.
As I mentioned before, the whole code thing depends on how you connect the pieces of the anime together and the only way to do that is to use your head. As for the Nunnaly part, the Lulu dead camp has often explained that it´s because she can see through people´s hearts. That has been proven false in the first season . Miasmacloud mentioned that it´s just there for artistic purposes and my question to her is how do you confirm that? It wouldn´t logically make sence to make Nunnaly see flashbacks immediatly after touching Lulu´s hand unless it has some hidden meaning to it.
I would also like to add another statement involving how Lulu got the code. Listen to Charles´ last line before Lelouch says “begone!” Charles says “If you deny me, you shall experience the Hell known as Schniezel´s world.” Not to mention that he chocked Lulu with the same hand as the code. Throught the series it has been obvious that there was some tension between Schniezel and Charles. Charles even mentioned that he sent Lulu and Nunnaly to Japan because he wanted to protect them from V.V. which implies that Charles cared more about Lulu and Nunnaly than all his other children. So, it wouldn´t be a surprise if Charles intentionally gave his code to Lulu before he dissapeared and the last line hints it somewhat because it goes back to my previous statement about Charles hating Schniezel. Throught the series it has been obvious that Charles didn´t trust Schniezel and wanted to begin the Ragnarok connection before Schniezel even had a chance to create his world. However, Charles´ plan came to a halt thanks to Lelouch so therefore he had no choice but to transfer his code because he hated the world which Schniezel wanted to create and that Lulu is the only one who can stop him.
I am sure you will now say that I am contradicting myself by mentioning the code transfer and then the quote from R2 ep 15 and my response is that Charles didn´t really die until Lelouch said “Begone!” You could argue that Charles dissapeared because Lulu geassed the collective consciousness. However, Lelouch never told the collective consciousness to obay him all he said was “do not stop the progress of time.” So therefore the part with Charles dying is Lelouch´s doing and the quote in R2 episode 15 makes it obvious that he did gain the code. If you were to argue that it was the collective consciousness who defeated Charles, I have 2 responses to that statement. The first one is the code transfer thar I mentioned in one of my previous paragraphs, it was clear in the anime that Charles didn´t want Schniezel to succeed no matter what so his only hope was to give Lulu the code. If he didn´t want Lulu to have the code, he would have just stood there and cursed Lelouch for ruining his plan but instead he charged quickly toward Lelouch and grabbed him with the same hand which has his code. My second response is the command that Lelouch gave the collective consciousness, it´s clear that he never asked the collective consciousness to help him defeat Charles all he said was “Do not stop the progress of time.”
December 30th, 2008 at 9:24 am
I’m not trying to explain what the Nunnally scene is. I have yet to weigh in what I think of that so far in this comment section. I have yet to say anything like, “Because Okouchi said so”. I am telling you that are contradicting yourself and none of what you said “fixes” that. So listen, troll, I am not going to be trolled by you into delving into something off-topic. This is very, very simple: Lelouch hadn’t died yet before Nunnally touched his hand, so how is that proof that Lelouch has a Code? How is Charles sticking his hand on Lelouch’s throat proof? Are you going to answer me about this? Are you going to answer me about proof that you have to die before your Code activates? This is the 3rd time I’ve asked now, and a common attribute of trolls is that they avoid what you’re really saying and come off from another angle to try to attack you. You whine about me calling you trolls on MAL and get defensive and zongetsu even went so far as to call himself a “troll killer”, yet all you’re doing is trolling.
December 30th, 2008 at 9:50 am
As I mentioned before you have to use your brain to connect the pieces of the puzzle together and as you mentioned before, there is a difference between the C.C. flashbacks and Lulu´s flashbacks and the Lulu flashbacks before dying is an indication that the code is starting to take effect because he´s dying. That´s why the flashbacks seemed different from C.C.´s, the flashbacks were there as an indication/foreshadowing of the birth of L.L. and if you want to go by Okouchi´s words, he never even adressed the flashback part. The Nunnaly seeing through people´s hearts part was not mentioned in any of Okouchi´s interviews nor was it mentioned in the guidebook so you have no evidence at all to prove that the flashbacks weren´t an indication that Lulu has the code.
December 30th, 2008 at 10:05 am
So where’s the proof that there’s like a specific way that “pre-Code activated memory scenes” display differently? Oh, right, there isn’t. You’re battling clear cut logic with baseless assumptions that have no foundation in anything. I’ve seen better trolls, try harder. Also I already linked you the cellphone pictures from Geass Net but like any other ignorant troll who doesn’t actually acknowledge anything you write, you of course ignore them. And are you ever going to say why it’s a “rule” that you have to die first to activate your Code, or are you going to keep ignoring that?
December 30th, 2008 at 10:20 am
You know, I think that’s the 4th time I’ve asked about the “needing to die to activate a Code” thing. The last question I got answered I had to ask 3 times. I guess I’ll just keep repeatedly asking until you people take your time to bullshit me responses. Oh, and your answer to the question I asked last time didn’t even really answer that, but rather brought up yet another questionable thing. How many times do I have to ask that question in order to get it answered? How many times are we going to go on, with you presenting something completely questionable as “proof” then me asking what the actual proof for your questionable bullshit is?
By the way, I find it hilarious that you people repeatedly say things like, “There’s no proof for that Nunnally hand reading shit” — I didn’t even bring that up myself, you did — when everything you say is questionable and proof-less. Your “proof” is not proof, its assumptions that you can’t prove. The same goes for your regards to Okouchi’s interviews.
Honestly, I’m beginning to think you’re actually not trolls, but just desperate idiots.
December 30th, 2008 at 10:24 am
As I mentioned before, Code Geass is an anime with ambiguity/double meanings, there is not really a proper explanation for everything. The fact is that before Okouchi made the statement, the majority of the viewers believed he got the code and even now many forum polls say he´s alive. For animes with ambiguity, you have to make assumptions otherwise it won´t make sence at all, that´s why Code Geass R2 is often called a “trainwreck” because of the amount of ambiguity and unexplained details. So that´s why our explanations are valid and there is no right or wrong answer about it. The fact of the matter is that the anime ended so ambiguously that you can make any assumption you want about it and there is nothing about the anime which can be changed.
It seems like your biggest problem is that you think your view is the only correct view, and you aren´t even trying to understand our perspective of the anime. There is no way to convince someone as arrogant as you about the code thing because your stubborness will prevent you from understanding our logic anyways. Besides, not even Okouchi himself mentioned that his way is the only way to view the anime so therefore we are entitled to our opinions and likewise so are you. Not even the comments on your blog mentioned that your view is the only correct view, in fact many of the comments mentioned that he´s alive with the code.
December 30th, 2008 at 10:27 am
…so are you going to explain why you need to die before the Code activates or not?
December 30th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Geassfan101, just fucking answer her question and stop changing the subject.
I want to know too.
December 30th, 2008 at 10:32 am
A longer response:
Geassfan, Zing, zongetsu… Look, I’m trying to understand your viewpoint by constantly asking questions about your viewpoint. There’s no way this discussion would have gone on this long if I wasn’t. But you’re making this very difficult because you’re not giving me any concrete answers at all.
Instead you just constantly repeat stuff like:
- USE YOUR BRAIN
- THERE ARE DOUBLE MEANINGS
- CODE GEASS WAS CALLED A TRAINWRECK
- THERE ARE NO RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWERS, BUT THAT NUNNALLY PALM READING THING IS OBVIOUSLY WRONG (and at MAL you call yourselves people who know the truth, even though there are, YET AGAIN, apparently no wrong or right answers)
- CC X LELOUCH OTP
- MIASMACLOUD IS A SCHNEIZEL FANGIRL, THATS REALLY WEIRD (@zongetsu)
- HERE’S SOME STUFF I FOUND ON MIASMACLOUD’S BLOG, LET ME COPYPASTE IT (@Zing)
…as if any of that’s remotely relevant to what I’m asking. Basically, off topic. You do this instead of just answering my question(s).
December 30th, 2008 at 11:17 am
We have been saying that there are no “concrete answers” to an anime which isn´t concrete so that´s why the anime ended ambiguously so all of us can decide what happened and there is no right or wrong answer about it.
Btw you are now contradicting yourself by first calling us “trolls” and then saying that you actually tried to understand our logic, that´s bull shit. We have mentioned repeatedly that everyone is entitled to their opinion and you talk like we are trying to convert people. We are simply trying to explain that there are 2 sides to the story and Okouchi only presented one of the sides. It´s your choice of which side of the story you believe more.
btw how do you define trolls? In my opinion, trolls are opinions which are have nothing to do with the anime for example the Nunnaly seeing through people´s hearts part and C.C.s happiness in the end. If you were to put the whole “troll” thing in your logic, then we would all be trolls because we are either bias to Okouchi´s words or the evidence we gathered from the anime. So in that sence you are no different from us so I would like to see what your definiton of “troll” is.
December 30th, 2008 at 11:19 am
I think miasmacloud addresses certain issues cogently. You guys should try answering her.
December 30th, 2008 at 11:27 am
That may be true but she is neglecting the other important issues such as Charles´ quote Defeat me with the power of Kings, and you shall surpass the power of Kings” and Lulu´s promise to make C.C. die smiling. Of couse she will counter by saying that the LuluxC.C. promise has no relevance to the series which is completely false because the entire series has been about how C.C.´s gift of geass has changed Lelouch´s life and their relationship is what led to their character development.
So, I would like to see how Miasmacloud addresses tthe issues that I just mentioned.
December 30th, 2008 at 11:28 am
>>Btw you are now contradicting yourself by first calling us “trolls” and then saying that you actually tried to understand our logic, that´s bull shit.
Except I already said that I was beginning to believe you aren’t trolls, but rather just idiots.
Trolling causes derailment and raging. I’ll leave it to you to figure out what that means.
BTW, I’m still waiting for the answers to my questions.
December 30th, 2008 at 11:32 am
All you are doing is avoiding our questions by asking questions, that´s a clever strategy but I believe we explained how the whole code transfer thing worked if you look back at our previous statements
December 30th, 2008 at 11:36 am
About Charles’ quote: To tell the truth, when does Charles supposedly say this and who’s subs were you watching? As a person who fansubbed it and has every script from S1 until the end of R2 on my harddrive at my convenience, there is no line remotely like that in R2 15. In fact in r2 15, there’s only one time that Charles says something about the Power of the Kings, and around here: “そのような小手先で わしを 倒そうとは｡ 王道で 来るがよい｡ 王の力を継ぎたいのであれば！” He tells Lelouch, “You’re trying to defeat me with such underhanded methods. Play by the rules if you want to defeat the Power of Kings.” So congratulations, your argument is also based off of a faulty translation.
December 30th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Er: “You’re trying to defeat me with such underhanded methods. Play by the rules if you want to inherit the Power of Kings.”
December 30th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Well if your subs are the only correct ones, then why did majority of the viewers see the final episode as an ambiguous ending?
December 30th, 2008 at 11:41 am
@miasmacloud
You fell for their troll… sigh
December 30th, 2008 at 11:42 am
>>Geassfan101 Says:
December 30th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Well if your subs are the only correct ones, then why did majority of the viewers see the final episode as an ambiguous ending?
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December 30th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Look, I don’t know Geass101. Maybe you should go ask whoever you downloaded your subs why they translated that like they did instead of asking something random and out of left field?
December 30th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Well no wonder you seem so confident about him not getting the code, you aren´t even willing to look beyond your own subs to prove your point. It shows that you think your subs are superior to the rest, which is another display of your arrogance. Obviously a person who subbs would say that his or her subs are better than the rest, that throws off the debate from Lulu getting the code to which fansubs can be trusted. However, it seems like you are so bias to your own subs that you aren´t even willing to compare your subs with other subs.
December 30th, 2008 at 11:56 am
…look, now see, that is just pure trolling. You can look these words up in a Japanese to English dictionary, you can ask another person who knows Japanese if you don’t trust me.
王道 [Pronounced and romanized as Oudou]: Does not mean the Power of Kings.
継ぎたい [Pronounced and romanized as Tsugitai], conjugated form of 継ぐ [Pronounced and romanized as Tsugu] (Hint: Dictionaries don’t usually pick up on the conjugated form so enter Tsugu): Does not mean surpass.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
If that quote is truly incorrect, it strengthens the arguement Zongetsu and I made about the code transfer. You might want to look back and read those long paragraphs that he and I wrote.
About the subbs, you are still basically saying that you are the only person who subbs correctly while the rest are incompetent. That goes back to my previous statement about you thinking that your subs are superior to the rest just because you made them.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
…when did I say that? Eclipse got it right too. I don’t know about Nightspeed though, did you download their subs?
Btw, you still haven’t gotten around to answering my questions, so here’s a reminder that I want them answered.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
(PS: Since you were confused about trolling earlier:
“About the subbs, you are still basically saying that you are the only person who subbs correctly while the rest are incompetent. That goes back to my previous statement about you thinking that your subs are superior to the rest just because you made them.”
This is definitely trolling.)
December 30th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
You never fully addressed my question about why C.C. seemed happy in the end along with the question of why people saw the ending as an ambiguous one. You responded by saying “Maybe you should go ask whoever you downloaded your subs why they translated that like they did instead of asking something random and out of left field?” But if your subbs aren´t of the “left field” then why did the people have the same reaction of Lulu being alive?
My point is that there are many more fans who would believe that Lulu is alive if it weren´t for Okouchi´s words. If we were to neglect the subbing part, there is still the nature of Sunrise to take into consideration. Sunrise has a habit in almost every anime to make you thing a character is dead when they actually are alive.
As for the answers to your questions, I believe we explained it in the debate with Charred Knight along with all the other previous statements but perhaps you were too arrogant and closed minded to even read them. Here´s a hint, look at the long paragraphs we wrote.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
>>Geassfan101
sup kaioshin sama
December 30th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
PS: Miasmacloud, are you saying that the people who question the integrity of your subs trolls? Well if that´s the case, then you are a troll too because you questioned the integrity of all the other subs except your own
December 30th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
>>You never fully addressed my question about why C.C. seemed happy in the end along with the question of why people saw the ending as an ambiguous one.
Because it has nothing to do with proving whether Lelouch has a Code or not, which for the 800th time, is what the argument should be about. Trying to stray the argument away, derail it? How trolly.
>>As for the answers to your questions, I believe we explained it in the debate with Charred Knight along with all the other previous statements but perhaps you were too arrogant and closed minded to even read them. Here´s a hint, look at the long paragraphs we wrote.
It you took you this long to say that? I already read it, and even re-skimmed through it with the word “die” highlighted. There is nothing where you explain why you have to die for a Code to activate. It is 90% related to Lelouch x CC, rather than the actual Code thing, which for the 801st time is what the argument should be about.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
>>PS: Miasmacloud, are you saying that the people who question the integrity of your subs trolls? Well if that´s the case, then you are a troll too because you questioned the integrity of all the other subs except your own
By bringing something up that has no relevance to the topic at hand — which is “Does Lelouch have a Code? Yes/No?” — you’re trying to derail the argument and also personally attack me. Troll.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
You are the one who is derailing the arguement by saying that our arguement is based on a faulty sub and you never mentioned that all the other quotes we gave came from faulty subs so you are the troll for judging which subs are accurate and which ones are not. We also mentioned that there is no “clear answer” to prove he got the code because Code Geass isn´t an anime with “clear answers” And did you even read the paragraph I wrote about why Charles would give his code to Lulu? It´s one of the long ones just so you know.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
“Why Charles would give his Code to Lelouch” != “Why you have to die for a Code to activate”
(”Why you have to die for a Code to activate” is what I asked a very long time ago.)
>>You are the one who is derailing the arguement by saying that our arguement is based on a faulty sub and you never mentioned that all the other quotes we gave came from faulty subs so you are the troll for judging which subs are accurate and which ones are not.
…except that’s based on something factual: A language called Japanese. How is that trolling? Trolling in translation would be telling you that it’s wrong, then instead of giving you a corrected translation, tell you something completely different and stand by that wrong translation in order to trick you.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Geassfan101, I thought you had some common sense in you…
But honestly, after reading your bullshit, I can only come up with two reasoning:
A) You’re a troll
B) You’re plainly fucking stupid
Out of courtesy, I do not think you really are stupid, so thus, you must be a troll.
Look, hun, one mistranslated line is not the reason why people believe Lelouch is still alive. I’m pretty fucking sure there are people who watched gg/eclipse’s subs that believes Lelouch is still alive. (I may be one of them, but that doesn’t make Lelouch alive)
If you want to troll, please take it to a troll-worthy place like MAL or ANIMESUKI, not some random persons’ blog. I’m sure the blog owner doesn’t want trolls like you wasting his bandwith.
Love,
Jaka
December 30th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
BTW, other questions:
- Why do pre-activated Code bearer’s give off the memory sequences?
- Why are pre-activated Code bearer memory sequences different from Code bearer’s?
- Why are pre-activated Code bearer’s memory sequences also presented differently in the anime?
- Why wouldn’t they at least have the psychedelic screen to let you know that it’s Geass-related?
December 30th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
>>And did you even read the paragraph I wrote about why Charles would give his code to Lulu?
It’s a theory, not a fact. You wrote about WHY he would give it, that doesn’t mean he GAVE it. Do you understand? I’m sure you do.
Stop shoving your fat cock down other people’s throat. I’m getting tired of you, hun.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
“If you want to troll, please take it to a troll-worthy place like MAL or ANIMESUKI, not some random persons’ blog. I’m sure the blog owner doesn’t want trolls like you wasting his bandwith.”
Well all I have to say is believe what you want about the troll part. As for the owner of the blog, he obviously seems more interested in the discussion than his own bandwith. I agree with Jake´s statement that one mistranslated line didn´t change the people´s opinions as far as the ambiguity of the ending is concerned.
“Look, hun, one mistranslated line is not the reason why people believe Lelouch is still alive. I’m pretty fucking sure there are people who watched gg/eclipse’s subs that believes Lelouch is still alive. (I may be one of them, but that doesn’t make Lelouch alive)”
It seems we have another lost soul who believes Lulu is dead just because other people say so,
the fact is that the anime ended ambiguously so there is no right or wrong answer about what happened. It all depends on your perspective of the entire series and not even the official sources say that Code Geass isn´t an anime with multiple meanings.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
BTW, other questions:
- Why do pre-activated Code bearer’s give off the memory sequences?
- Why are pre-activated Code bearer memory sequences different from Code bearer’s?
- Why are pre-activated Code bearer’s memory sequences also presented differently in the anime?
- Why wouldn’t they at least have the psychedelic screen to let you know that it’s Geass-related?
That´s exactly why I said that there are no clear answers for an anime as ambiguous as Code Geass
“It’s a theory, not a fact. You wrote about WHY he would give it, that doesn’t mean he GAVE it. Do you understand? I’m sure you do.”
The tension between Charles and Schniezel has been obvious throught the entire series and it´s obvious that Charles didn´t want Schniezel´s plan to succeed so given those facts you can conclude that he gave the code to Lulu whether he intended to or not.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
I would like to add one more thing to the Charles thing, Charles could have just stood there and said his line but no, he charged toward Lulu, grabbed his neck with the same hand which has the code, and then said his line. If you look at our site, it shows a gif of that scene and strangely enough, after Lulu said “begone!” Charles´ right hand (the hand with the code) is the first thing to dissapear.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
>>That´s exactly why I said that there are no clear answers for an anime as ambiguous as Code Geass
In other words, no answer? But these things are important to your belief and supporting its legitimacy, so why aren’t you answering them? Shouldn’t you know them like the palm of your hand if you go so far as to say that this “the truth” on your MAL club?
December 30th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Also are you ever going to answer me about why you have to die before your Code activates? You seem to think that the issue of Charles passing on his Code with that, when its not relevant.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
>>It seems we have another lost soul who believes Lulu is dead just because other people say so,
No hun, I’d really like to believe that Lelouch is alive, but the evidence doesn’t point towards that he is. I think you are the one who’s believing Lelouch is alive because other people say so. (I know the guy who originally came up with the whole LOL-CODE argument)
>>I would like to add one more thing to the Charles thing, Charles could have just stood there and said his line but no, he charged toward Lulu, grabbed his neck with the same hand which has the code, and then said his line. If you look at our site, it shows a gif of that scene and strangely enough, after Lulu said “begone!” Charles´ right hand (the hand with the code) is the first thing to dissapear.
You know he could’ve just fapped and lol’d, right? Look, when your son wants to kill you, it is human nature to feel anger, so that’s the reason why he tried to kill Lelouch.
And for reference, please do not ever fucking call me Jake again. It brings back my childhood traumas. Thanks and have a good day.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
“Also are you ever going to answer me about why you have to die before your Code activates?”
That´s an easy one, look back at C.C.´s flashback, she was killed by the nun in order for the code to activate and same goes when charles was “killed” in R2 ep 15.
“But these things are important to your belief and supporting its legitimacy, so why aren’t you answering them? Shouldn’t you know them like the palm of your hand if you go so far as to say that this “the truth” on your MAL club?”
When did we ever say that the MAL club is the “only” answer to the Lulu dead/alive discussion? We are simply presenting the evidence of the anime from a different perspective. We aren´t trying to say that our answer is right while everyone else is wrong. However, you talk as if your perspective is right while everyone else is wrong and we are just saying there is no right or wrong answer to an anime which ended ambiguously.
“You seem to think that the issue of Charles passing on his Code with that, when its not relevant”
It´s only natural you would say the code transfer thing is irrelevent because you don´t even consider Lulu´s promise to C.C. at all while making your arguements. I think we can all agree that Lulu would have been dead a long time ago if it weren´t for C.C. and Lelouch is the one who gave Lulu a reason to live and he promised to make her smile. So I am not surprised that you would consider the Charles part irrelevant because you have said almost every one of our arguements are irrelevant. So why are you even wasting your time arguing with us if you know that you won´t be able to convince us.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
“No hun, I’d really like to believe that Lelouch is alive, but the evidence doesn’t point towards that he is. I think you are the one who’s believing Lelouch is alive because other people say so. (I know the guy who originally came up with the whole LOL-CODE argument)”
There were many people who believed he´s alive somehow when they saw the ending of the anime and the code theory is just a logical way in which he survived. As I mentioned before, it depends on how you see the ending and the majority viewed the ending as an ambiguous one so therefore there is no denying any theory.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
>>That´s an easy one, look back at C.C.´s flashback, she was killed by the nun in order for the code to activate and same goes when charles was “killed” in R2 ep 15.
So Charles, without his Code activated and thus susceptible, walks up to Lelouch and eggs him to use his Geass on him? So Charles was relying entirely on Lelouch to command him to kill himself?
…what?
December 30th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
“I think you are the one who’s believing Lelouch is alive because other people say so.”
If that were the case, I wouldn´t be wasting my time arguing here.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
>>There were many people who believed he´s alive somehow when they saw the ending of the anime and the code theory is just a logical way in which he survived. As I mentioned before, it depends on how you see the ending and the majority viewed the ending as an ambiguous one so therefore there is no denying any theory.
I… do not see logic in your argument…
I… only see a bunch of unproved theories in your argument…
Man, am I feeding these trolls too much -_-;
December 30th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
“So Charles, without his Code activated and thus susceptible, walks up to Lelouch and eggs him to use his Geass on him? So Charles was relying entirely on Lelouch to command him to kill himself?”
Precisely, Charles knew perfectly well that Lulu would give the command to kill him and he even mentioned in R2 ep 21 that the whole purpose of the war was to draw out C.C. so he knew right from the beginning that Lulu wanted to kill him. Let´s not forget Charle´right hand man Bismark Waldestein has a geass which can predict the future so there is no way you can refute that Charles knew that Lulu would command him to die.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
- So why was Charles relying on Lelouch to kill him?
- If Charles was relying on Lelouch to kill him, why did he egg him on to Geass him about his mother’s death?
- If Charles was Geassed, why don’t they show any of the usual signs like his brain patterns altering or red rings around his eyes through the mirrors? You see red rings on Schneizel’s eyes even from a long distance away.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
“I… do not see logic in your argument…
I… only see a bunch of unproved theories in your argument…
Man, am I feeding these trolls too much -_-;”
If that´s the case, then get the hell out of here instead of wasting your time trying to convince us,
December 30th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Also Bismark was nowhere remotely near there, try again.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Also I like how you don’t seem to consider that C.C. is covered in the Sister’s blood since she you know, was standing nearby C.C. and was shown bloody and laying on the ground after.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
- So why was Charles relying on Lelouch to kill him?
- If Charles was relying on Lelouch to kill him, why did he egg him on to Geass him about his mother’s death?
- If Charles was Geassed, why don’t they show any of the usual signs like his brain patterns altering or red rings around his eyes through the mirrors? You see red rings on Schneizel’s eyes even from a long distance away.
I would like to see if you can even answer those questions yourself. All I am going to say that it all goes back to the ambiguity of the anime and all the questions you ask all prove our point about the ambiguity in Code Geass which is why it´s considered a “trainwreck.”
December 30th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
>>he knew right from the beginning that Lulu wanted to kill him.
Prove this. Seriously.
Since time immortal, Lelouch has wanted to ask his father why his father questions. His own reaction to after he tells him to die is one of shock and he’s in disbelief himself that he did that.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
“Also Bismark was nowhere remotely near there, try again.”
He dosn´t need to be nearby to predict the future, that has been proven in R2 ep 21 when he was able to detect Charles´ death while being on Schniezel´s Avalon
December 30th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
So when did Bismark and Charles meet up and talk about supposedly this prediction that Lelouch is going to come up to Charles and kill him despite wanting nothing to do but ask questions since forever ago? Or is there some psychedelic mind connection we’ve got going here between them?
The more specific this gets, the more ridiculous you become.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
(PS: The meet up and talk part is what I meant in reference to Bismark being NEARBY.)
December 30th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
>>he knew right from the beginning that Lulu wanted to kill him.
Prove this. Seriously.
Since time immortal, Lelouch has wanted to ask his father why his father questions. His own reaction to after he tells him to die is one of shock and he’s in disbelief himself that he did that.
I was referring to the time before Charles had his immortality but ever since Lulu found out that he became immortal, he knew that he couldn´t kill Charles. As you mentioned, he wanted to question Charles after he became immortal because he knew that he couldn´t just kill him. About Lulu´s reaction of shock after he kills charles, look at the scene where he gets back up. Lulu gets a gun and shoots him, which is when he realizes that Charles is immortal.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
So when did Bismark and Charles meet up and talk about supposedly this prediction that Lelouch is going to come up to Charles and kill him despite wanting nothing to do but ask questions since forever ago? Or is there some psychedelic mind connection we’ve got going here between them?
The more specific this gets, the more ridiculous you become
That´s because the anime never answered these things clearly and why don´t you try to answer those questions if you think your answers are always right?
December 30th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
…what you just said doesn’t prove “he knew right from the beginning that Lulu wanted to kill him.” at all.
>>As you mentioned, he wanted to question Charles after he became immortal because he knew that he couldn´t just kill him.
No. He laments him because he had questions to ask him, and this is before he knows he’s immortal. This is in the dialogue of R2 15. Go re-watch it.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
You couldn´t even respond to the LuluxC.C. promise and now you seem to be hesitating to answer your own questions. Show us your answers, if you are so smart and know the anime 100% you should be able to answer those questions without a problem, but none of us know the anime 100% which is why we can only draw conclusions given the hints we see on the anime. They aren´t necessarily right or wrong due to the ambiguous end of Code Geass.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
>>That´s because the anime never answered these things clearly and why don´t you try to answer those questions if you think your answers are always right?
As mentioned much earlier by Jaka, I’m not in the position to have to explain myself. I don’t have answers for those questions. If I did, I wouldn’t be asking them. I’m the one asking you to explain yourself, and explain the foundations of how/why/??? Lelouch has a Code, and you’re the one who should have those answers because they are relevant to your argument and your beliefs here. Yet you continuously avoid answering my questions, passing them off as, “No answer because Geass is a trainwreck” while insulting me, telling me to use my brain and piece things together, yet I think this is largely the other way around. If you’ve really thought your theories and beliefs thoroughly through, then yes actually you should be able to answer my questions.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
“No. He laments him because he had questions to ask him, and this is before he knows he’s immortal. This is in the dialogue of R2 15. Go re-watch it.”
That´s true but then he tries to attack Charles again when he gets up. So what do you have to say to that?
December 30th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
>>You couldn´t even respond to the LuluxC.C. promise and now you seem to be hesitating to answer your own questions.
Because it’s shipping related and means nothing to me because I don’t ship any pairing in Code Geass.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
>>That´s true but then he tries to attack Charles again when he gets up. So what do you have to say to that?
That’s true but then he tried to kill Charles in the first place.
So what do you have to say to that?
(Hint: He did it on impulse. His shocked reaction to his actions in the first place and his shocked reaction to the fact that Charles is still alive says everything.)
December 30th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
As mentioned much earlier by Jaka, I’m not in the position to have to explain myself. I don’t have answers for those questions. If I did, I wouldn’t be asking them. I’m the one asking you to explain yourself, and explain the foundations of how/why/??? Lelouch has a Code, and you’re the one who should have those answers because they are relevant to your argument and your beliefs here. Yet you continuously avoid answering my questions, passing them off as, “No answer because Geass is a trainwreck” while insulting me, telling me to use my brain and piece things together, yet I think this is largely the other way around. If you’ve really thought your theories and beliefs thoroughly through, then yes actually you should be able to answer my questions.
We tell you to use your brain because you are completely neglecting the whole LuluxC.C. promise, and the Nunnaly seeing memories, C.C.´s final line, and the crane are the pieces which put together the puzzle of Lulu being alive. The C.C. being happy in the end is the biggest hint of him being alive because throught the episode she seemed gloomy.
So now it´s time for me to ask you a few questions. Why is C.C. happy in the end if she knows that Lulu isn´t with her?
December 30th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
How does this prove that Charles knew that Lelouch wanted to kill him all along?
Please answer, Geass101. Just asking.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
(PS: The impulse I’m speaking of is the “survival” impulse. There’s a reason why he hid being Shinkirou in the first place.)
December 30th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
>>Why is C.C. happy in the end if she knows that Lulu isn´t with her?
The way you word this, it means that CC is only and could only be happy if Lelouch was with her, which also means shipping. -___-;; Haven’t I said like 50 times already that shipping should be irrelevant?
December 30th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Oh god I think I have gone blind
December 30th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
My my…charred knight, i have also gone blind….
Id just like to say, after reading ALL of that, that jake/miasmacloud’s amazing comeback every single time is, youre a troll, and geass was a train wreck. I love your combacks, zong youre a troll, dont call me jake! and i def am not a schneizel fangirl!…(i made that last part up but oh well lol..)
The subs i watch are eclipse subs, owning the scripts doesnt make you cool you know.
As for why lelouch hid behind shinkiro, it wasnt impulse…it was because of Charles geass. He did not know its limitations and didnt want to risk it. Who knows, maybe it has an unlimited use, or a further range to cast. He was being cautious?
As for “How does this prove that Charles knew that Lelouch wanted to kill him all along?”
Lelouch knew that charles was provoking him to use his geass, he even said so himself, and then, he said “This is no time for a half hearted order.” The man he hated the most was in front of him, he wasnt going to waste this chance. Yep, he let his emotions get the best of him.
However i will agree that he paniced when charles got up. He tried to use geass again, and as you could see, it did work, but it wasnt powerful enough. It “flew” half way and got rejected, unlike when he tried to use it on kallen twice. When he used it the second time on kallen, nothing happened, no halfway flight or anything. This leads up to how he got his code from his father. And, you know, the eclipse subs actually say…
(eclipse subs)
“Come at me through the way of kings, if you wish to succeed the power of kings”.
“DIE!”
“Is that the way of kings?”
(wow…isnt this pretty close to, “defeat me with the power of kings and you will surpass the power of kings”??…its the same thing worded differently)
Obviously no, he didnt have a matured geass yet…until ep 21
Now, let me get to some interesting stuff. So, how do you really think a geass user kills a person with a code? I really dont know, but im absolutely sure, it would have to be in some way inflict damage to them such as stabbing them. The nun was in a pool of blood, due to the blood pool, id say that she had either shot herself, or smashed her head. Yes a way of death. Now apply this to ep 21. Now lelouch cast a geass on the “GODS”, to not stop the progess of time. This became his weapon against those would wanted it to stop, and who wanted it to stop charles. Mariianne too, but we dont care about her =p. So back to the point. the world of C, virtually became his weapon. It would have killed charles eventually, but lelouch in terms “pulled” the trigger to make him die faster. Yes…imaging Lelouch pointing a gun at charles, the world of c is the gun and somehow its trigger is slowly being pulled. However due to charles rushing at him, lelouch pulls the trigger, killing charles. Now if you can get that analogy, the omg….
and i just thought about VV too, charles didnt use a weapon to kill him, he basically took it while VV was healing. Without the code to heal his wounds he bled to death. However ill say again…good analogy.
so…i want to comment on, CC was covered in the sisters blood. I dont believe she was, i believe she was covered in her own blood. Look at the sister, shes sitting nicely in a nice pool of blood, no disturbances there. CC’s neck, head, some of her breasts, and underneath her are covered in blood, they were her own injuries.
As for you believing that nunnally can see through hearts, i know you use r2 ep 15 as well to prove it, but if she could do it anyways, why did she have to ask her a question first? Couldnt she have just been like, youre lying. She was like to ms. Romirer, is this fair to the japanese? and then to suzaku, who was the person i was talking to on the phone? was it my brother? Then she sensed that he was disturbed…wow, some skills she has. If you knew some blind people in real life you would know that they have really good senses. I have a cousin whose blind, personal experience.
>>Why is C.C. happy in the end if she knows that Lulu isn´t with her?
The reason is, that if he wasnt, she would continue her experience that she dreaded so much. The one she almost gave her life to lose. Her experience of being alone, and living a dead eternal life. If lelouch died, would she have a reason to live? She almost gave up in r2 ep 15, but lelouch convinced her otherwise, to live on, to make her happy. Smile=happy? then afterwards the anime built up on CCxLelouch scenes. There were more scenes in the last 5 eps than in the entire anime seriously.
Dont use the geass-net stuff on me. Yes, in no other anime have i ever seen a mobile site deticated only to japan, and only accessable on mobile phones. However if you want to prove me wrong go ahead. So back to the point, if she was happy because of her memories with lelouch how does that save her from eternal loneliness? Wouldnt that only allow her to dread the past? She wouldnt be moving forward. And just like everyone else she has met, wont he too disappear in time? Its only natural to forget.
and then…there is the crane, and the mysterious driver. The crane has absolutely no meaning for CC at all. You can say that she made one, but as we could see from it, ep 5, shes not very good at making them. It is more of a symbol to represent nunnally. And who does she mean the most to? Lelouch of course. It would serve as his memior of her for he has lost her, as well as his life. When i say lost his life, i dont mean hes dead. Then, just to make things more complicated, they zoom in on the cart driver, just missing his head. They spend about 8 seconds displaying the driver…yeah, hes also heavily covered, perhaps to conceal his identity, after he is known as Lelouch the demon king. Demon king=warlock? “If you are a witch, then i shall become a warlock” witch=immortal warlock=immortal? witch+warlock=couple CC=witch Lelouch=warlock CCxLelouch?
“I will change the world, I will grant both your wish and my own, I will fulfill the contract he could not…so…”
“Lelouch…are you trying to comfort me, to pity me, or to win me back?”
“It’s a contract this time from me to you…”
“very well, I accept your contract”
both wishes granted, changed world, and CC wish, to be loved? Completed, great ending
All i gotta say is this, if it would have ended with the kallen epilouge, maybe, just maybe i would believe a little bit that he was dead. But no, it didnt, it skipped to CC’s scene and had her go “*giggle*…nah lelouch?”
December 30th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
That´s exactly the point which I was trying to make this whole time but we all know that Miasmacloud will come back and say the LuluxC.C. shipping is irrelevant. Anyone who watches the anime won´t deny that the relationship between C.C. and Lelouch is what led to their character development.
You can´t deny that C.C. chose to live because of Lelouch and likewise C.C. helped Lelouch by helping him regain his composure during the times when he killed Euphy, the time when he found out that he must fight Nunnaly, and even the time in R2 ep 16 when he was shocked to find out that the Emperor escaped from the pillar of Akasha. Also don´t you think the witch and warlock quote has some significance? It shows Lelouch´s promise that he will always be with C.C.
Even in R2 episode 24, C.C. still referred to her promise with Lelouch while knowing about what Zero Requiem is. So, how would you explain that?
December 30th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Why cant you people sleep at night? Seriously, this ISNT how I like to start my mornings. By reading your bullshit.
[gg]_Code_Geass_R2_-_15_[11178DDE]
I believe that is your subs file?
It says clearly:
Charles: Play by the book. If you want to inherit the Power of Kings, that is.
Lelouch: DIE!
Your subs…
[Eclipse] Code Geass – Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 – 15 (1280×720 h264) [DCA806F7]
It says:
Charles: Come at me through the way of kings, if you wish to succeed the power of kings!
Lelouch: DIE!
In the end, I find the quality of ECLIPSE subs far more superior then gg, at least they care to explain stuff and dont just put links to wiki on screen or tells to you to “Go google it”.
Asking to prove, asking to prove. I was hoping my first comment would make it clear to you, that it’s nearly impossible.
We are talking about Code Geass, CODE GEASS! Anything is possible there mate.
I can go around with 50+ theories and maybe’s, circulate through all of them and come back to the very same statement I just made.
It is Code Geass, everything is possible.
Even if I disagree on the way how Geassfan101 interoperate many of the things, I think zongetsu put it all nicely together.
Schneizel x Cannon FTW (Or was it Kannon?)
December 31st, 2008 at 12:58 am
>>(wow…isnt this pretty close to, “defeat me with the power of kings and you will surpass the power of kings”??…its the same thing worded differently)
No, actually, it isn’t.
“Surpass” and “Succeed” are completely different fucking words. Succeed is inherit, like I said was the translation of Tsugu. Surpass means to go beyond.
“Defeat me with the Power of the Kings” is completely different than “Take the path of a King if you want the King’s power.”
Get out a dictionary, okay?
>>Demon king=warlock? “If you are a witch, then i shall become a warlock” witch=immortal warlock=immortal? witch+warlock=couple CC=witch Lelouch=warlock CCxLelouch?
So you doubt gg’s subs because of me, but you use our Season 1 translation of Maou=Warlock as part of your argument? Lmfao. People really pick and choose what to believe.
>>Why cant you people sleep at night? Seriously, this ISNT how I like to start my mornings. By reading your bullshit.
Baaaaw.
>>Asking to prove, asking to prove. I was hoping my first comment would make it clear to you, that it’s nearly impossible.
And I’m asking you to prove that Lelouch is alive, which you believe so vigilantly as to call “THE TRUTH”, yet you’re failing to do.
@zongetsu and Geass101:
>>a bunch of shit asking me to explain shit related to SHIPPING
Your “theory” constantly, constantly goes back to, “Lelouch wants to live with CC and they’ll be a couple and be happy together for all of immortality!” Okay, but can you prove he actually has a Code first? …which brings us back to what I’ve been saying the whole time: Shipping should be irrelevant, and this should be about proving he actually has a Code.
You’re insisting that Lelouch x CC is canon and cannot be defied at all, and then arguing with me based on that, assuming I accepted that couple and on the same terms as you, and assuming that everyone accepts that couple as canon for anything you’re saying related to Lelouch x CC as proof of Lelouch being alive. You’re assuming that CC can only be happy with Lelouch — in other words yes a COUPLE — and using that as a foundation. Remember what I said way back at the beginning? The people who accept your theory based on Lelouch x CC have to be desperate Lelouch x CC fanboys to accept it. You’re just verifying that over and over.
And this is all hilariously ironic coming from you people, since you insist that there are so many UNEXPLAINED things and things with HIDDEN MEANINGS in Code Geass because IT’S A TRAINWRECK, then you insist that Lelouch and CC’s lines can be taken so literally as to mean that Lelouch literally can’t die until CC is literally happy/literally smiles/literally wtfever. But me asking where they literally said shit like “You have to die to activate a Code” or “Pre-activated Code Bearer’s have different memory sequences” is out of bounds. And I’m not sure why I’m suddenly in a position to explain Lelouch x CC stuff when you still have yet to explain all of the mysteries about your Code transfer “theories”.
If Lelouch is alive and he has a Code, then you can pair him up with whoever the hell you want after you prove he’s alive, who cares? So why don’t you focus on the part about actually proving he has a Code and answering my 70 questions related to it? All you’re doing is constantly derailing this is into Lelouch x CC support discussion, then taking my non-answers as “q_q miasmacloud won’t answer our questions what a fag” as if that’s relevant to proving that Lelouch has a Code. Lelouch x CC is something that could happen as the result of Lelouch x CC having a Code, but it doesn’t prove he has a Code. What does Lelouch x CC have to do with “You have to die to activate a Code” or “Pre-activated Code Bearer’s have different memory sequences”?
December 31st, 2008 at 1:26 am
And I have just now received confirmation that no one’s fansub said “Defeat me with the power of Kings and you will surpass the power of Kings” or anything remotely like it. Wow. So you made that quote up, used it as an “argument”, and then tried to derail the argument into talking about my integrity as a fansubber? Pathetic.
Or are you still going to insist that it means the same thing when anyone who knows English and isn’t a moron would know otherwise?
December 31st, 2008 at 1:28 am
(PS: Try harder @ trolling. Trolls can usually make up complete bullshit interpretations out of actual subs and argue based on that. They don’t even have to make up lines.)
December 31st, 2008 at 2:23 am
-”You’re insisting that Lelouch x CC is canon and cannot be defied at all, and then arguing with me based on that, assuming I accepted that couple and on the same terms as you, and assuming that everyone accepts that couple as canon for anything you’re saying related to Lelouch x CC as proof of Lelouch being alive. You’re assuming that CC can only be happy with Lelouch — in other words yes a COUPLE — and using that as a foundation. Remember what I said way back at the beginning? The people who accept your theory based on Lelouch x CC have to be desperate Lelouch x CC fanboys to accept it. You’re just verifying that over and over.”
No pairing was made cannon in Code Geass but Sunrise has given many hints that they support LuluxC.C. by putting them in the front page of every magazine cover along with their other merchendice. If they were doing this for the sake of attraction, they would have put Lulu and Kallen on the front page because Kallen is the fanservice character of Code Geass. Not even Okouchi himself endorsed any pairing so that´s why Sunrise kept their mouths shut about their opinions of the shipping part, but it´s obvious that they are supporters of the LuluxC.C. pairing.
As I mentioned multiple times, the LuluxC.C. relationship has more significance than any of the other pairings because their relationship was a part of their character development
December 31st, 2008 at 2:24 am
PS: I was going to be more elaborate on my final statement but I g2g so I will explain it when I get back
December 31st, 2008 at 2:26 am
…what does that have to do with proving that Lelouch has a Code and that Code’s can only be activated when you die that pre-activated Code bearer’s see memories differently and that Charles was basically gambling everything on Lelouch ordering him to kill himself?
December 31st, 2008 at 3:32 am
Charles was having some fun on his own account, do you remember when in first season, when Ephimia started killing Japanese. He had a laugh and was saying “Now you can truly be called my son” or something like that.
So maybe this was his way to challenge Lelouch to see if he can surpass him?
We truly dont know what kind of character he is, he had a brother they made a pledge with, to not lie to each other and change the world, yet his brother killed a woman he loved and lied. But he tolerated him. He started a war in order to change the world through World of C thingy.
Most of the family probably just awaited for him to die so they could take over the throne. You know this crap, it was explained by Lelouch in pictures drama or anime. Dont remember now.
For Charles, Lelouch was probably different from the rest of his children or family. Lelouch had his own values, not spoiled by royalty or family quarrels of who will take over the throne ect. ect. ect.
In ep.21 it was probably proved to him by what Lelouch said about Nunnally and wishes and so on.
So it wont be wrong to assume he would want him to succeed the throne. In the end, we know to little to judge Charles, but that my ASSUMPTION.
Lelouch is his son and an apple wont fall far away from the tree.
As for Lelouch, he had his trick with mirror’s he could use ONCE, there will be only one chance to geass him and he had to use as good as he could.
Aside from that, having the code activate only when you die makes sense as much as having it being all time active. But we dont know what and how it works, so it isnt wrong to have an assumption. Ah, let me explain by what is meant by activating it, since you are so fucking dumb.
You can look at code as insurance, once something bad happens, its there to fix it. But the fact that you have insurance on you all the time is the fact, it’s just insurance is only there, nothing else. Only when something bad happens you actually see an affect from it.
So if we stick to the fact that Lelouch got code from Charles, having it activate first time might cause abnormalities like Nunnally’s memory flashback.
So it goes like that “Fatal wound -> CODE being used due to the inflicted body damage -> Nunnally’s memory flash back when she come in contact with that person”
In theory that could be true, we know to little to say that it could not. Or if you are as smart as you want us to believe, prove me wrong.
As for why we dont see this all wierd things we usually seen when CODE was involved. Its simple, that would imply that Lelouch is ALIVE. There wont be any doubt in that, that’s why it was left out.
It have been just like that all the time, we have been showed and told what we need to know.
When Lelouch attempts to use Geass on C.C., we dont see it being repented like we see it happening in ep 15 when Lelouch is trying to geass Charles second time.
I know that you know all this crap, its on your blog. But you got to admit, trolling is kind of fun, eh?
December 31st, 2008 at 3:40 am
Hey, wait a minute, didnt i ask you why lelouch was dead first? All you did was go, here, it says so, end of story. Well, the president of the US can bomb the entire world even if he believed for an instant that they had nukes, which he did to iraq. What a fag. Same case here, look at you, your just like one of those politicians who believe every word he said and carelessly brought the US to war. God…
and tell me, how the hell would nunnally get a power such as “see through” peoples hearts? If this can be uproven, than what do you think of the end? Is it logical for a girl to some how gain supernatural powers on her own? No, in the world of geass, the only power IS geass, code too, but w/e. If she had a geass, CC would have absolutely told lelouch about it, but she didnt, ntm we did not see it activate which means she did it by her own power, which means that that it is bull because you can do something like that, create a superpower by yourself.
as for never seeing “defeat me with the power of kings and you shall surpass it.” I actually do remember seeing it subbed but by who idk.
So anyways, if it was really intended as you say
“come at me with the power of kings so you can inherit the power of kings”
Er…“You’re trying to defeat me with such underhanded methods. Play by the rules if you want to inherit the Power of Kings.”
(believe you or eclipes…your or eclipse…i think eclipse =])
it would absolutely make so sense for he just repeated himself. Its like lelouch come at me and then you will have black hair…his hair is already black. He already has the power of kings, geass! No sense. However if you use OTHER definitions it would still end up coming back on my side. For instance, to succeed, break away.
“Come at me with the power of kings, if you wish to break away from the power of kings…” How do you break away from it….let me think, for one, you can die, or two, you can take the code? Yes for one, he did not die against charles, and as i said before killed him. Thus he broke away from the power of kings.
“The power of kings known as geass will isolate you, but i guess thats a little wrong, nah lelouch?”
For one, it brought him to CC, their meeting was “inevitable”, and two hes not alone because she is with him. Witch and Warlock
So as you said, i just “shipped” something, but how about i use this argument..Lelouch planned it all out. Yes i said it, he did. Everything went according to his plan.
>In the first season, he wanted to make a kind world for nunnally right? Bam done, he did it.
>Then worried that he wouldnt be able to stay with nunnally he wanted someone to watch over her…suzaku, bam done.
>CC true wish is shown, bam done
>Need to defeat the emperor, bam done
>conquer the world, bam done
>Erase Euphie from history, bam done
>Erase his and suzaku’s existence, bam done
>Leave nunnally in a government position, bam done
>have zero rise again, ZERO RE;QIEM, bam done
See, in the end, he wasnt willing to use his geass on nunnally because, he did not want to involve her in his battles, but after hearing her plan to change the world using damocles as a symbol of hate, he did because he knew how much stronger she had grown, and verified that she no longer need his protection.
Then listen to all the character songs, well Nunnallys, CCs, and lelouchs. Combined them and see, one lelouch did no think he would live, CC is not alone, and Nunnally has turned solitude into her ally, becoming stronger.
“If happiness were visible
If I could show it to you, then I’d try to stand at the end of the darkness
Even as far as the furthest points of the earth” -lelouch
“The seasons move again, the wind blows
And I’ve gotten the feeling someone called my name
In that place where the light dances boisterously,
White feathers simply come fluttering down” -Nunnally
“Youre not alone”
“Im not alone”
“Our encounter was inevitable”
Now where does light dance boisterously? where it is darkest. Where is lelouch? at the end of darkeness. Is he alone, no, CC is with him. However there is one point in the CC and lelouch song where they talk about the zero re;quiem.
“Because even if the season when the two of us
Will be walking on separate paths comes someday
I’ll become the wind connecting the remote starry sky”
-CC
“Those who walk the path of carnage can never retrace their steps
Even if I crumble and turn to ash, because life has a limit
There is worth in gambling it, even if our linked fingers come apart”
-Lelouch
now this shows dedication seriously, and you think that there is no CCxLelouch…listen to the rest of it. However it ends with a new beginning and her watching over lelouch. It is just as lelouch ends his song, upon the death of Lelouch vi Brittania. He was gambling his life that he had actually gotten the code. Its not like you can tell these things. So thats why they (suzaku/CC) were crying in the end, they didnt know for sure or. It is shown in r2 ep 15, once again, that she cannot tell who has a code, because she was like, whoa, VV youre dying! It was a gamle, he wished to gamble on the gods.
“I shall gamble on the geass known as peoples wishes”
“hey suzaku, dont you think wishes are the same as geass? Things you cant accomplish with your own powers, so you ask for the assistance of others.”
“we understood it inside the world of C, that people desire a future.”
World of C, the gods, is the will of the world. Power of god is immortality, in other words the code. So hes really saying that he is going to gamble on the code for assistance. He wanted to live.
Yes i love your comebacks
>>(PS: Try harder @ trolling. Trolls can usually make up complete bullshit interpretations out of actual subs and argue based on that. They don’t even have to make up lines.)
I really dont know if you actually read this, but youre just deflecting everything in your own denial. Striking back by criticizing what i say. You keep on saying
1)he doesnt have a code
2)that nunnally can see through hearts,
3)and explain the ambiguous ending.
Prove it
and…How about you actually type 70 questions down for me to answer? Id be glad to answer them, if it made something go through your head.
The only way things would have turned out as they did if he was alive, how about going back to youre scripts that you own, fill in the blanks like when Lelouch says “CC, youre my…” or “Ive found you my…” fill in all those blanks.
December 31st, 2008 at 5:14 am
>>>>…what does that have to do with proving that Lelouch has a Code and that Code’s can only be activated when you die that pre-activated Code bearer’s see memories differently and that Charles was basically gambling everything on Lelouch ordering him to kill himself?
Repeating this until you answer.
>>as for never seeing “defeat me with the power of kings and you shall surpass it.” I actually do remember seeing it subbed but by who idk.
And yet no one who subbed Ep 15 actually put this, so you’re lying.
>>So anyways, if it was really intended as you say
>>“come at me with the power of kings so you can inherit the power of kings”
>>Er…“You’re trying to defeat me with such underhanded methods. Play by the rules if you want to inherit the Power of Kings.”
>>(believe you or eclipes…your or eclipse…i think eclipse =])
Except they both mean the same thing and you can figure this out by — oh you know, doing what you’ve been telling me to do this whole time: “Use your brain.” If you want to inherit the power, then behave like one. Like being the operative word here.
However under no circumstances nor interpretation does “Defeat me with the power of Kings if you want to surpass the power of Kings” mean the same thing as “Come at me through the way of Kings if you wish to succeed the power of kings!” (this is what Eclipse actually put) and you actually tried to tell me they mean the same thing.
>>2)that nunnally can see through hearts,
I have not said this once in this conversation, yet you claim:
>>You keep on saying
So how about you quit making crap up and answer me already?
December 31st, 2008 at 5:18 am
Oh hey, “come at me with the power of kings so you can inherit the power of kings” is also wrong and also not what anyone put in their subtitles. You people bitch at me for being “narrow minded” towards my own work… in reference to a line that you cannot properly quote at all, and are making up and lying about seeing in subtitles. How does it feel to be delusional?
Eclipse put: Come at me through the way of Kings, / if you wish to succeed the power of kings!
gg put: Play by the book. / If you want to inherit the Power of Kings, that is.
^— from the actual fansubbers scripts.
Neither of those mean the same thing as:
defeat me with the power of kings and you will surpass the power of kings
come at me with the power of kings so you can inherit the power of kings
^— said by you.
The way of a king != Power of a King.
December 31st, 2008 at 5:21 am
From MAL:
>>Miasmacloud, what is she thinking…you cant inherit the power of kings if you already have it…
Too bad that’s what the subtitles you referenced (Eclipse), the other subbers, and the actual Japanese says. Unless you still think that “succeed” means the same thing as “surpass” (lmao).
December 31st, 2008 at 5:26 am
>>Then listen to all the character songs, well Nunnallys, CCs, and lelouchs. Combined them and see, one lelouch did no think he would live, CC is not alone, and Nunnally has turned solitude into her ally, becoming stronger.
LOL CHARACTER SONGS. This is fucking priceless. Gino and Xingke had a character song together, this must mean their BFF’s right?!
December 31st, 2008 at 5:27 am
(BTW, I’m still waiting an explanation on how “you have to die before your code activates” and “pre-activated code bearers give off different memory scenes” are related to Lelouch’s character developments are related to C.C.)
December 31st, 2008 at 5:28 am
>>are related to Lelouch’s character developments are related to C.C.)
–> are related to Lelouch’s character developments with C.C.)
December 31st, 2008 at 5:31 am
And now I am being ignored
How typical…
December 31st, 2008 at 5:36 am
Zing: Baaaaw. Cry moar. Now you know how I feel when all of my questions get repeatedly ignored. (Also I’m not sure why you want an answer from me when you answered yourself: “I know that you know all this crap, its on your blog. But you got to admit, trolling is kind of fun, eh?”)
December 31st, 2008 at 5:41 am
(PS: People who say that you can’t take things in Geass literally and that everything has some HIDDEN MEANING and then saying, “Miasmacloud, what is she thinking…you cant inherit the power of kings if you already have it…” which is taking inherit literally is lol.)
December 31st, 2008 at 6:05 am
It’s easy to group me with the rest. But if you do such thing, I will never forgive you! LMAO
Srsl, get to the point, just for the sake of debating things. So far you have only been demanding, so I gave in to your demands. Now it is only polite that you return the favour.
December 31st, 2008 at 6:11 am
I obviously grouped you with the rest from the start, and in turn, I was grouped with the people who go around saying that Nunnally has mind reading powers and people who are only willing to argue on the basis of “because so and so said so.” It’s all “fair”, pal. Plus, what’s the point of responding to a person who finishes their post by saying, “I know you know this is a bunch of bullshit” and openly admits they’re trolling? Did I or did I not say that I dislike going back and forth with trolls? zongetsu and Geass101 on the other hand, I really have no clue if they’re trolls or not because their behavior screams “troll” but then when I look at the MAL club and how long that’s been going on I begin to think that they really actually believe everything that comes out of their mouth down to “surpass means the same thing as succeed”.
December 31st, 2008 at 6:19 am
I know that you know all this crap, its on your blog. But you got to admit, trolling is kind of fun, eh?
Similar to:
I know you know this is a bunch of bullshit” and openly admits they’re trolling?
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
SPOON FEEDING TIME!
“I know you know this crap” means that I assume that you already been through same thoughts as I was explaining, that same things (What I replaced with crap) went through your mind.
“But you got to admit, trolling is kind of fun”
Here, I accuse you of trolling. That is literally what you do.
You are dumb as a wooden stock, no fun at all.
December 31st, 2008 at 6:38 am
I “know all of this crap” because it’s been argued to me before. The only logical meaning of “its on your blog” in relation to the thing before is that you’re saying you know I’ve already been in arguments with Lelouch = Alive people because of the wooden doll post. Yet the wooden doll is hardly all-inclusive and nearly everything that’s been said here is nothing I haven’t heard before.
The “new” stuff is stuff like zongetsu trying to find meaning in the character songs. That was seriously hilarious. Also new is zongetsu rambling about “Defeat the power of Kings” — a line which is in no one’s sub. No wonder I haven’t heard it before, it didn’t actually happen. Well then.
And I thought you already knew I was a troll? After all, you constantly refer to me as one on MAL, that place where you also delete my posts.
December 31st, 2008 at 7:02 am
Such a difficult person… Why do I have to put up with such nonsense on pre-new year day? In fact, it will probably hit 31 December in my country when I am finished posting this.
You sure that you are female? Its just, I wonder how do your boyfriend get along with you… I know, it is irrelevant. But I am just a little curious.
You seriously still crying over that post? Such a cry baby…
Are you referring to Babushka dolls? They are actually called Matroshka.
Stop babbling about Zongetsu and others! You answer to me now! Answer to our discussion instead of picking on other peoples misplaced words.
December 31st, 2008 at 7:09 am
>>Our discussion
Our discussion about what? I already told you why there’s no point in answering you if you aren’t saying something to mean it and are just trolling, no? Well, if I didn’t, then there we go. Also Babushka and Matryoshka are perfectly acceptable terms. I think Babushka is actually more common. Also saying Matryoshka might get confused with the .mkv/Matroska container format. Or did we start a new discussion? Would you perhaps like to talk about Schneizel x Kannon instead? Or perhaps which is more common between Babushka and Matryoshka?
December 31st, 2008 at 7:35 am
I did misspelled it a bit, thank you for correction.
Its a bit hard to get Russian vocals translated into English… Hehe
But for your knowledge, Babushka means grandmother, while the correct name is Matryoshka.
What is more common is irrelevant, Matryoshka is correct one.
Schneizel x Kannon? Irrelevant, through interesting why your blog and gg website is covered all over with Schneizel x Kannon crap.
Yes, our discussion. I would like to ask you to address points in my long post I made earlier today. Even if you dont see the point in doing so, to begin with, I didnt seen the point in why I had to explain thus things to you. But since you was asking, I did.
Just as side note, I watched R1 and R2 in a marathon and was not participating in any community or visited any websites about Code Geass when I was watching. I just had seen some add’s and heard some people saying that Code Geass was pretty good. Then was the time when I was bored, so I took a look at what Code Geass was.
Only after the last episode, I in disbelieve started searching for other people who also believed that Lelouch was alive.
Even if its irrelevant, just wanted to share a little story
December 31st, 2008 at 7:52 am
Did someone just use that since Lelouch and C.C appear on a lot of covers as evidence that Lelouch is alive?
The number of times they appear on a cover simply means that they are by far the two most popular characters with Suzaku third so he gets plenty of covers, and no one likes Kallen in Japan so she barely gets any.
At no point in time has Taniguchi or Okouchi ever stated what couple they prefer, and the series itself supports Nunnalouch.
Really if your going to go by pictures than the clear couple is Lelouch and Suzaku, I mean show me a picture that matches the scene of Suzaku kissing Lelouch’s sword in lust. The phallic imagery is clear.
December 31st, 2008 at 8:04 am
Dear Charred Knight, I know it is hard, plus it takes a lot of time and effort to read all comments made in this blog. But I believe you are misunderstanding a few things.
So please, take your time and read yourself into current circumstances or perish.
@ >>> and no one likes Kallen in Japan so she barely gets any.
I can understand Japanese people very good
December 31st, 2008 at 8:42 am
Yikes, you say im not the one answering anything, hbu? You havent answered anything at all, its either, youre a troll, or i have already said what i wanted to. Youre just being stubborn, here, you expect all the answers from me, yet you give non yourself. Not in one line above did you answer anything, you just blabbed on and on, about me and geassfan, and then about irrelevent stuff.
Are you even reading what im writing?? You just say i keep repeating myself. Succeed in my book means the same thing as surpass. For example, if a was a ninja and i wanted to be hokage, what would i have to do…surpass the current one, and then succeed to the position. In order to surpass you have to succeed, in order to succeed you have to surpass. Thats how i look at it. Also, the other def would work fine also, as i stated above.
If you put it in your context it makes no sense. You cant inherit what you already have. Power of kings=geass, if he already has geass, it cannot be inhered again. However if you put it in my context, it makes much more sense.
>>2)that nunnally can see through hearts,
I have not said this once in this conversation, yet you claim:
So, you dont believe in “geass-net” huh…denial, you claim he is dead yet this is false? Contradictions, denial
Character songs=way old
I came up with that a long long time ago. After listening to CC song connect, brain spark. All the character songs ARE about the characters after all. And yes, if only i knew what their song was about…i think i heard it before, it sucked…
>>>>…what does that have to do with proving that Lelouch has a Code and that Code’s can only be activated when you die that pre-activated Code bearer’s see memories differently and that Charles was basically gambling everything on Lelouch ordering him to kill himself?
Oh boy here we go again. So that first part, proving lelouch has a code is vital for his survival. If you add everything up it certainly makes it possible. And ill repeat everything i said, AGAIN, just for you.
Lelouch first encounter with charles was probably not planned. He just happend to be there. He hid behind Shinkiro in fear of being hit by charles geass. It was survival instints, but it was more fear than anything. Charles didnt gamble anything on lelouch killing him. If lelouch didnt do it what was he going to do? Lose to lelouch in a fist fight? No, he knew well that lelouch would allow his anger to get the best of him, knowing that he would cast the geass “DIE” on him. Other than that, he couldve just killed himself, he did have a gun after all. Charles was lelouch’s father after all, he knew these things. Its just like me and my bro, i know what makes him mad, and i know how to provoke him too. Same here…it is just as lelouch said, the emperor was provoking him, by standing in front of him.
I believe that pre-activation of the code makes perfect sense. Lelouch was inflicted with a fatal wound, and the code activated to help him recover. It just as the emperor did. He shot himself, his code began activating, and then he got up. Before you can get up you have to of been “recovered” first. Im pretty sure youre not going to get up with a huge hole in your body. So it would also make sense that he can also use its power to inflict an image onto the another person, Nunnally. To the extent of this i do not know, but it does not mean that it isnt possible.
I swear you are either blind, or you are not reading my post. I swear i have already said what i have said. You really must enjoy seeing me repeat myself over and over eh?
Everything has to do with lelouch getting the code. If he didnt get it, there would be no happy ending. Things would contradict itself, and there would be holes in the story line. The only way to make everything work out nicely is to have him alive. If he was dead it wouldnt work out so well.
Im still waiting for you to reply about why he IS dead, and for the 70 questions you want me to answer. All you have been doing is criticizing me, can you not fight back? Cuz all i see is this going down hill for you.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:47 pm
>>Yes, our discussion. I would like to ask you to address points in my long post I made earlier today. Even if you dont see the point in doing so, to begin with, I didnt seen the point in why I had to explain thus things to you. But since you was asking, I did.
What did I say at the start about not wanting to babble with some troll? Then you later come here and quickly admitted to being one?
>>You just say i keep repeating myself. Succeed in my book means the same thing as surpass.
“In my book”? You must have the book of “I make up meanings for words because I don’t really know what they mean”. They don’t mean the same thing. Hint: You ever heard of the word “succession”?
>>So, you dont believe in “geass-net” huh…denial, you claim he is dead yet this is false? >>Contradictions, denial
Where did I say it was fake? All I’ve said is that I’ve yet to bring it up in this conversation at all. BTW, you guys asked for proof that Geass Net exists, I actually gave you screenshots of it displayed on someone’s cellphone, and you ignored it. Whatever.
>>I came up with that a long long time ago. After listening to CC song connect, brain spark. All the character songs ARE about the characters after all. And yes, if only i knew what their song was about…i think i heard it before, it sucked…
I repeat: Gino and Xingke had a character song together, this must mean their BFF’s right?!
>>I believe that pre-activation of the code makes perfect sense. Lelouch was inflicted with a fatal wound, and the code activated to help him recover. It just as the emperor did. He shot himself, his code began activating, and then he got up.
This assumes that Charles was actually stupid enough to do that and that he actually got Geassed by Lelouch, even though never saw any of the brain patterns or the actual sigil going into his eyes or anything. You have to yet to actually prove this.
>>Im still waiting for you to reply about why he IS dead, and for the 70 questions you want me to answer.
Because he should be dead by his own ideals and because it’s a thing called “closure” when you consider that the series started off with Lelouch getting borrowed time. You found the place where I expressed why I think he’s dead. You found it when I first came here. Yet you keep on asking what my opinion of this is.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Owait, Zing, I do have something to say about that text that you put ~so much effort~ into: Prove it. *^^*
December 31st, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Why dont you just retype everything here? Maybe im too lazy to visit your blog.
>>You just say i keep repeating myself. Succeed in my book means the same thing as surpass.
Well, you gotta admit, with the analogy i used, it made a lot of sense. If you are to supass someone, you are to succeed them. However to break away definition also works too.
As for geass net, i dont believe in it. I never did, or will. Seriously, a private site only avaliable to japanese cell phones, only in japan, with a subscribed? Some one mustve pulled something funny there, in all my life i have never heard of something like that. Sigh…
Gino and Xingke are BFFs. Well, jk. If i could actually find a translation of the song, maybe i could find out why theyre singing the song. I could recall, but im not sure, like 10% sure that it was about change in the world. It would only make sense for them to sing, for one, popularity increase, and two, they talk about world change? But…im not sure because i listened to it a long time ago. Everyone else got a song, and i dont think suzaku can sing, ntm they cant either, but oh well.
>>This assumes that Charles was actually stupid enough to do that and that he actually got Geassed by Lelouch, even though never saw any of the brain patterns or the actual sigil going into his eyes or anything. You have to yet to actually prove this.
Well, for one, i dont know what you mean when you say charles was stupid enough to do that, but oh well ill guess. If you mean let lelouch kill him, it wouldnt be that stupid, he couldnt die remember? I think he was testing how much of a man lelouch was, note when he got up he was like “strategies, traps, suprise attacks, trying to defeat me using such cheap tricks…” then he had to say…”come at me with the power of kings if you wish to succeed the power of kings”.
He wanted lelouch to face him face to face. That could also be another reason. As for him already being immortal before that, i find it highly unlikely. How could he kill himself so fast? Inject himself with poison. He had to do it without spilling blood, for he was nice and clean before he shot himself.
>>We have never seen someone who has had an unactive code get geassed. We did see it fly however just not manifest itself. It could just be due to being used on someone with an unactive code, for he is the only time we see it in the anime. When he used it on CC it was far weaker, not having been “run on”, so it didnt even “fly” at all.
This is how we see geass in Code geass..
Normal people=flying/manifesting (visible)
People with codes (normal geass)=no effect/flight (not visible)
People with unactive codes (run on/1 eye)=Flight/no manifestation (not visible)
People with active codes (run on/1 eye)=Flight/ denial
People with active codes (matured geass)=never see it happen, some people cant kill with their geass, so they have to literally kill them, i already mentioned how to.
>>Because he should be dead by his own ideals and because it’s a thing called “closure”
Why should he be dead by his own ideals? If you mean death as an atonement for his sins, youre quite wrong. Ive said this alot, death is not an ideal way to atone. To live is. If he just died, he wouldve gotten an easy path out, left everything as it was. Now he has to live with what hes done, its much better this way. As for ideal, remember my list of what he accomplished?
(i copied an pasted this from above)
>In the first season, he wanted to make a kind world for nunnally right? Bam done, he did it.
>Then worried that he wouldnt be able to stay with nunnally he wanted someone to watch over her…suzaku, bam done.
>CC true wish is shown, bam done
>Need to defeat the emperor, bam done
>conquer the world, bam done
>Erase Euphie from history, bam done
>Erase his and suzaku’s existence, bam done
>Leave nunnally in a government position, bam done
>have zero rise again, ZERO RE;QIEM, bam done
Now, that is a more reasonable way to close things up, plus, it makes sense with everything that has happened. That is closure right there. Its not like the anime is going to cover him forever, it has to close somewhere. It only covered a huge part of his life. The time of Black rebellion and world change. Yes, one of the reasons i like this anime so much is because we see the characters develope. Lelouch started off thinking it would be a smooth ride, however he faced many obstacles on his way up. At times he felt like he couldnt go on, but was picked up by CC and once by Kallen. Human aspect.
He accomplished everything he set out to do.
Oh yeah, btw he didnt get borrowed time in the beginning. It was fate, inevitable that he would meet CC.
Yes, do i still have to prove he’s alive??? after all, im STILL waiting for your 70 questions.
P.S. Anyone know why Charred Knight believes in Nalulu so much…seriously, that is WRONG.
NunnallyxSuzaku
December 31st, 2008 at 4:15 pm
>>As for geass net, i dont believe in it. I never did, or will. Seriously, a private site only avaliable to japanese cell phones, only in japan, with a subscribed? Some one mustve pulled something funny there, in all my life i have never heard of something like that. Sigh…
Then you haven’t lived very long now have you? Seriously instead of assuming that I’ve said things about Nunnally palm reading, why don’t you actually try asking me what I think of it?
>>Why should he be dead by his own ideals? If you mean death as an atonement for his sins, youre quite wrong. Ive said this alot, death is not an ideal way to atone. To live is. If he just died, he wouldve gotten an easy path out, left everything as it was. Now he has to live with what hes done, its much better this way. As for ideal, remember my list of what he accomplished?
No, he’s making up for his sins by being deprived of the world that he made better.
>>Oh yeah, btw he didnt get borrowed time in the beginning. It was fate, inevitable that he would meet CC.
Prove it.
>>Yes, do i still have to prove he’s alive??? after all, im STILL waiting for your 70 questions.
Yes, you do still have to prove he’s alive because nothing you’ve said is remotely convincing. It’s all meta-text, mostly related to you wanting Lelouch x CC to be a couple and working on coming up with whatever explanation for any holes in your theory so you can fill the gaps. And it’s coming from a person who thinks “succeed” means the same thing as “surpass” which says a lot about your credibility and intelligence.
December 31st, 2008 at 4:15 pm
BTW, I’m *still* waiting for answers to *my* questions, so take a ticket and stand in-line.
December 31st, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Actually, I have things to do so I’ll just leave this here on my own:
>>Seriously instead of assuming that I’ve said things about Nunnally palm reading, why don’t you actually try asking me what I think of it?
Okouchi is a retard is what I think of it. However it is not anymore ridiculous than say Guilford surviving FLEIA.
December 31st, 2008 at 5:04 pm
>>Okouchi is a retard is what I think of it. However it is not anymore ridiculous than say Guilford surviving FLEIA
Heck yes, you deserve a high five *HIGH FIVE!*
I really didnt say that you said anything about Nunnally’s palm reading, just that you did indeed point it out as a source of him being dead? Hate geass-net. Yes, and im starting to see how much more logical than you are than other people. You actually dont believe in it =]
yes, i havent lived that long…only 16 years =]
Once again however, my analogy for surpass and succeed makes a lot of sense doesnt it? And, how about you poke some holes in my theory about why lelouch isnt alive. No matter what way i look at it, he has to be alive. It also points to CCxLelouch. Then final scene just had to do what it did.
As i said ealier, if that scene wasnt put in, i might of believed he was dead, but nope.
Yes, its not that i want CCxLelouch, its just how it is, it points to it being that way. You add the ending, plus everything ive shown to you, it all points to it again…remember my list of stuff lelouch did? If it was truly to be a “closure” to the series, then everything would have been completed. Creating a new world, fufilling CC wish, they were all promises he made.
Ill just say it again incase you didnt catch it
Please poke some holes in my theory about him being alive, instead of me trying to prove to you, why dont you try to unprove me?
One last thing i almost didnt catch, but, you said:
“No, he’s making up for his sins by being deprived of the world that he made better.”
Exactly, except he did not die, he has to continuously face that pain. Choosing the path he did, he chose to give up everything he knew, he lost his “mask” as Lelouch Vi Britannia and everything connect to it, friends, life, nunnally, everything.
Do you really think death would be an atonement compared to that of immortal life? Thing about how suicidal people think. They continuously pursue death, however are forced to live. Do you think living would be a more suitable punishment? With death, one would never worry again. Think how about how CC viewed this. It=hell. ‘
Death is not a way to atone, to live and suffer the consequences of your actions is. You know how noble lelouch is, what do you think he would choose?
Intelligence…IQ=135 =]
id say thats pretty good, but still not genius
December 31st, 2008 at 5:37 pm
>>Once again however, my analogy for surpass and succeed makes a lot of sense doesnt it?
No it doesn’t because surpass does not mean the same thing as succeed. If you looked up that kanji I gave you in a dictionary, it’d give you the meaning of succeed used as “succeed the throne” or similar.
>>Exactly, except he did not die, he has to continuously face that pain. Choosing the path he did, he chose to give up everything he knew, he lost his “mask” as Lelouch Vi Britannia and everything connect to it, friends, life, nunnally, everything.
No, because he’d still be -alive- and able to enjoy the world. Especially for you, who is a Lelouch x CC shipper, should understand why what you’re saying is not punishment… You’re saying, as a Lelouch x CC fan, that Lelouch’s “punishment” for using Geass on people is… go wander the earth for eternity with the girl you think he is most suitable with? I don’t understand how, from your perspective, or from an outsider’s prospective, that’s that a real “punishment”. Or are you implying that Lelouch x CC is not really that great of a pairing, and that him being with CC is punishment? That’s a pretty depressing way to look at your favorite pairing tbh.
December 31st, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Good morning.
>>> Owait, Zing, I do have something to say about that text that you put ~so much effort~ into: Prove it.
You are such a mess! Its Code Geass dude. Proving so is pretty hard, I also believe I made an effort to type ASSUMPTION not PROF in my post. So quit your trolling and play by the book.
Can you please provide another picture of geass-net for the disbelievers? I kind off missed the first time ride…
>>> Yes, you do still have to prove he’s alive because nothing you’ve said is remotely convincing.
Seriously, its Code Geass. You cant prove it, but everything is possible because its Code Geass.
So either come with some serious arguments, or be gone.
>>>Okouchi is a retard is what I think of it. However it is not anymore ridiculous than say Guilford surviving FLEIA.
You’re such a mess… Is this the limit of your ability as a blog writer?
>>> Once again however, my analogy for surpass and succeed makes a lot of sense doesnt it?
Surpass and Succeed is 2 different words with completely different meaning, how ever. They can be applied to have same meaning.
>>> and, how about you poke some holes in my theory about why lelouch isnt alive.
I like to see that happening, but even if a hole getting poked, it can easily be patched by another theory. Such can go on for eternity. Simply because we are talking about Code Geass.
>>>Yes, its not that i want CCxLelouch, its just how it is, it points to it being that way.
Code Geass #1 couple.
>>>No, he’s making up for his sins by being deprived of the world that he made better.
From C.C. view point, the eternal life is known as Hell, people you love will perish and it all will become a memory. You wont be able to stay at same place for far too long without other people getting suspicious and so on.
He wont be able to see Nunnally getting married, become uncle or celebrate Christmas with them. He will remain in the shadow of him self for the rest of his life and watch over the world. Fortunately, he is not completely alone.
>>> What did I say at the start about not wanting to babble with some troll? Then you later come here and quickly admitted to being one?
I am a troll and I love trolling, that makes us equal. Dont see any reason why you would not too, you little troll.
December 31st, 2008 at 7:08 pm
>>insert zing going “you’re a mess” and “code geass is a trainwreck” here
I assume that’s all you have to contribute to the conversation at this point.
>>Surpass and Succeed is 2 different words with completely different meaning, how ever. They can be applied to have same meaning.
The Japanese word used is the same word you would use to say “succeed the throne”. “Surpass the throne” doesn’t make a lick of sense. Surpass and succeed are not the same word at all in English either. This is quite factual and you look stupid to debate it, but I guess zongetsu just wants something to argue about.
December 31st, 2008 at 7:19 pm
So your just going to ignore the rest?
December 31st, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Dohoho, I has more time now.
@zongetsu:
>>Yes, and im starting to see how much more logical than you are than other people. You actually dont believe in it =]
I don’t think you’re really picking up on what I’m really saying though… Follow this line of thought: “Guilford surviving FLEIA is dumb as bricks, but it actually happened.”
>>Please poke some holes in my theory about him being alive, instead of me trying to prove to you, why dont you try to unprove me?
…uh.
Your theory has holes because:
- You assume that Lelouch x CC is a canon couple.
- You assume that Lelouch x CC is a canon couple that want to be together for all eternity.
- You assume that CC still thinks immortal life is a living hell by the end of the series.
- You assume that CC wants to be with Lelouch.
- You assume that all dialogue related to the possibility of Lelouch x CC being a couple should all be taken literally.
- You assume that Lelouch x CC is “punishment” for Lelouch’s sins of using Geass on people.
- You assume that Lelouch is alive.
- You assume that Lelouch has a Code.
- You assume that you have to die in order to activate a Code.
- You assume that pre-activated Code bearers give off memory sequences.
- You assume that pre-activated Code bearers memory sequences are also different from activated Code bearers.
- You assume that Charles was relying entirely on Lelouch to kill him to activate his Code.
- You assume that Codes can be forcefully taken, or that Code bearer’s can forcefully give away their Code.
– You assume that Lelouch would want to forcefully take a Code.
– You assume that Charles wanted to forcefully pass his Code on.
– You assume that there was bad blood between Charles and Schneizel, even though Charles said in S1 17 that if Schneizel is confident enough and can actually challenge Charles, then let him.
– You assume that Codes in general can be forcefully passed on, despite CC wandering the earth being emo for so many years when if she could completely forcefully pass it away, she could have done so ages ago.
– You assume that putting the body part where your Code is located on another person’s body means that a transfer is taking place, even though CC’s code was on her forehead and Charles didn’t try to take her Code by doing something with her forehead, but rather went into a “dancing” position with her.
– You assume that the blood on CC was CC’s own blood and not the blood of the Sister, even though the Sister was standing near by her was definitely bleeding.
– You assume that the blood on CC was CC’s own blood despite it being on places like her eyes, which is where the Sister’s blood could have/would have logically fallen since she was originally standing over CC.
You assume all of that, and yet you can’t prove any of that. You just hide behind excuses like “Geass has a lot of unexplained things, so I must be right.” That’s not an argument, that’s not a theory, that’s not — as you put it at MAL — “the truth”. And all of these assumption are based on your desire to see Lelouch x CC immortal and together. Admit you think Lelouch is alive for irrational reasons, and I’ll go away.
Alternatively, I could interpret that because you’ve resorted to saying “Geass has plot holes, so I’ll fill them in on my own”, that’s the same as saying “I’m openly being irrational about this”. Hm.
@ zing
>>So your just going to ignore the rest?
I’m sorry but I read this as, “So you’re not going to feed my troll?”
January 1st, 2009 at 3:21 am
You can only prove what you can with what you are given. If they for instance show that a person with a code can transfer images, then they can. All codes are the same, it basically gives them immortality and immunity to geass (amature).
Your theory has holes because:
- You assume that Lelouch x CC is a canon couple.
>>They are a cannon couple?
- You assume that Lelouch x CC is a canon couple that want to be together for all eternity.
- You assume that CC still thinks immortal life is a living hell by the end of the series.
>>I never assumed that, or even thought about that, by the end of the series her point of view changes. She no longer sees it as hell for she says “geass is the power of kings, it will isolate you, guess thats a little wrong, nah lelouch?” Go back to ep 25 of the first season, in her and lelouchs little dialouge together, then once again in r2 ep 15, you hear what she thinks of immortality.
- You assume that CC wants to be with Lelouch.
>>She does…its pretty obvious. She’s not the one to show her true feelings you know, however it does develope truly in the last few episodes. In R2 ep 24 there was a scene, where lelouch asked CC if she was alright. She replied to him asking him if he really was worried about her. He said you are an important part of my force. And then on and on, then the important part, we almost got a make out scene. But, no…Kallen just had to ruin it. Ntm that she chose to live when she was presented the opportunity to die. She chose lelouch over charles, after all, he agreed to fulfill her wish right? Her true wish, which he learned from her memories, that of being loved.
- You assume that all dialogue related to the possibility of Lelouch x CC being a couple should all be taken literally.
>>It should be taken literally. Seriously, her wish is “to be loved” after all. And as we could all see, she was being loved by lelouch. However…lelouch isnt that much of a romantic guy, so they tease each other quite often. For example, when talking to her me might call her witch, and CC’s fine with that, she knows what he means. Mhm, both of them had feelings towards each other, “Ill make you smile dammit!” “You will smile for me no?”
- You assume that Lelouch x CC is “punishment” for Lelouch’s sins of using Geass on people.
>>Who said anything about CCxLelouch as a punishment? It was his immortality that was the punishment. Because of that he lost everything, friends, life, nunnally. That was the punishment, his isolation from the rest of the world.
- You assume that Lelouch is alive.
>>He is alive, ive said over and over why, read above.
- You assume that Lelouch has a Code.
>>I dont assume it, it is the only outcome give the facts that we have been given.
- You assume that you have to die in order to activate a Code.
>>In all three cases, we have seen, we have seen the code bearer die, and then the person who recieved it die. Nun died, CC died. VV died, Charles died. Charles died, Lelouch died. In all three cases they died, so its only plausable that you have to die to activate it, or recieve a fatal wound (which leads to death w/e)
- You assume that pre-activated Code bearers give off memory sequences.
>>Well, to be exact, when lelouch gave it off, it really wasnt pre. If it has started activating the moment he suffered the sword wound, it would make sense that he could give off images. As shown, by CC, someone can peer into your memory, even if it is against your will, but, since she touched him, it was good he was able to tell her the truth.
>>well, let me think about this, CC was in a state of high “energy” i could call it when she was transfering images to suzaku…so, if lelouch was in the same state, given the code had just activated it would give off something similar to that, allowing nunnally to see his memories. On he could have transferred them or two she couldve just peered into him just as he did to CC.
- You assume that pre-activated Code bearers memory sequences are also different from activated Code bearers.
>>I didnt assume that, however it is a possibility, however as i stated in the last one, It could have just been from his code activating which allowed Nunnally to see his memories.
- You assume that Charles was relying entirely on Lelouch to kill him to activate his Code.
>>I didnt say Charles was relying on him. I said that he was testing lelouchs manhood. Why would he just stand in the way and not do anything? He had nothing to lose, he already knew he had taken the code and that VV had died. Its just as he said, face me with the power of kings!!
- You assume that Codes can be forcefully taken, or that Code bearer’s can forcefully give away their Code.
>>So, do you really think CC wanted to be immortal? As the crazy nun said
“to end my eternity someone needs to take my place, someone that posses a certain level of geass. How dreadful this was…the hell known as being alive for eternity”
“umm..what are you talking about…”
“Sorry, you were fooled!”
*CC, shocked face*
later…
“my existance was simply to be a tool to add to the final period of her life.”
She didnt want it, it was forced on her.
– You assume that Lelouch would want to forcefully take a Code.
>>He would. If it would kill charles then that is what he would do. Ntm he also promised CC to become a warlock. So it would kill two birds with one stone.
– You assume that Charles wanted to forcefully pass his Code on.
>>He very well could of, but i highly doubt it. He was already dying. His code would have been passed to lelouch anyways.
– You assume that there was bad blood between Charles and Schneizel, even though Charles said in S1 17 that if Schneizel is confident enough and can actually challenge Charles, then let him.
>>You just said it yourself, if there was bad blood someone would challenge someone.
“Charles said in S1 17 that if Schneizel is confident enough and can actually challenge Charles, then let him.” Bad blood
– You assume that Codes in general can be forcefully passed on, despite CC wandering the earth being emo for so many years when if she could completely forcefully pass it away, she could have done so ages ago.
>>In order to do so, the person with the geass must obtain a fully matured geass. The geass in someones eye really cant be seen by someone else, so you just have to estimate its power. In r2 ep 15, she states
“In other words, one would obtain the ability to kill me.
Of the many who have made a pact with me, none have been able to attain the goal, However now there is one, Charles.”
So just to point out something that i havent mentioned yet. Can a god kill a god? I think so. And then, if no one had obtained that goal, then no one has been able to live long enough to get a matured geass. As i put in one of my charts, the only ones who can kill a god is another god, or a person with a matured geass. If Charles can cross contracts with CC why cant lelouch do the same? Charles never made a contract with CC yet can take her code. So, on the contrary it would only make sense if he with matured geass could take charles.
Ntm this was after Shirley died. CC saw that she was becoming not unimportant for lelouch seeing him rage a war against the geass cult just for shirleys death. Here she shows her humanity, becoming jealous, and feeling sorry for those whom she kills. She feels like she had become worthless, and whats why she wanted to die. She lost her last hope, but that hope returned due the persuasion of Lelouch. He didnt want her to die “Ill make you smile dammit!!”
– You assume that putting the body part where your Code is located on another person’s body means that a transfer is taking place, even though CC’s code was on her forehead and Charles didn’t try to take her Code by doing something with her forehead, but rather went into a “dancing” position with her.
>>for one, i dont ever remember seeing where VV code was. If you do please point it out. And i dont really think that the placement of the code matters. If it did, then lelouch was smart in the end and covered his hand in blood to obscure where the code was. If the world knew about geass, all hell would break loose.
– You assume that the blood on CC was CC’s own blood and not the blood of the Sister, even though the Sister was standing near by her was definitely bleeding.
>>If you watch it, you see that the sister is bleeding out the back of her head. There is no blood on her clothing or on the ground which means that she mustve died on the floor or fell back wards. And then you look at CC, remember that she had a scar under her left breast? She is bleeding there, and then her head, once again, bleeding. The only way for the sister to get blood on CC without spilling any on the ground and then end up like 8ft away is if she hurt herself, jumped a long distance and fell backwards dying. Its just not possible no matter how you think about it.
– You assume that the blood on CC was CC’s own blood despite it being on places like her eyes,
which is where the Sister’s blood could have/would have logically fallen since she was originally standing over CC.
>>sigh…she was standing over CC but you gotta see that she moved from a corner to directly under the glass. Then the sister is bleeding only out of the back of her head, and isnt even remotely close to CC. IF you get a wound on top of your head, the blood spills down, over your eyes, down your neck. Yes in code geass gravity does exist.
Yes, i answered all of your questions. Got anymore?
and you have the scripts right? Please fill in the black spots where lelouch goes “your my…” “im your…” and in ep 1 when CC says “ive found you, my….”
January 1st, 2009 at 4:06 am
Normally I would be angry at someone in denial like Zongetsu is, but Zongetsu is so much in denial that reason has no effect on him. Like proving without a doubt that Lelouch is alive, or using quotes from Okouchi or Taniguchi that its just sad. I mean theirs a difference between discontinuity (the belief that the writers botched it up, and pretending it didn’t happen), and ACTUALLY BELIEVING IT DIDN’T HAPPEN.
I have never seen anything like it, Zongetsu’s complete and total denial of not only the actual anime, the guide, and Okouchi himself is something I have never seen before. Usually people jiust except the words of the creator due to the fact that well they created the series, but Zongetsu refuses too. He refuses to acknowledge that since Lelouch got stabbed and is shown as dying that he has to prove that Lelouch is alive, not that we have to prove his dead. He refuses to acknowledge that the official Code Geass Guidebook has stated that not only did Lelouch die, but Lelouch never loved C.C as a wife/Girl Friend but only loving her as his partner. He refuses to acknowledge that Okouchi has stated that Lelouch is dead.
I am not angry, I am just sad that Zongetsu can’t see reason.
January 1st, 2009 at 7:56 am
Im not the one in denial. Even miasmacloud says that okouchi is a retard. Like i said before, if they really wanted him dead so much, why didnt they just make it completely obvious in the anime? You say im in denial of the anime, yet everything i have ever thought up has come from it. As for the guide book, dont like it one bit. Anywhere they can possibly put lelouch as dead, they do, it gets really annoying after a while.
Well
“Usually people jiust except the words of the creator due to the fact that well they created the series, but Zongetsu refuses too. He refuses to acknowledge that since Lelouch got stabbed and is shown as dying”
Well, i saw CC die in the beginning, she lived, then i saw Mao get annihilated by bullets, he lived, then i saw, fliea engulf Guilford and Nunnally. Then i saw suzaku not eject from lancelot and live. In all these cases, they “died” but didnt. Just because you see them die, doesnt acutally mean they do.
If you want to go official so much, geass.jp, official website, still alive on correlation chart.
http://geass.jp/correlative.html
Still alive…
You shouldnt be the one proving im in denial, i should be the one proving that you are, for one, thinking lelouch and second for even thinking for a second, Nalulu.
So ill repeat what ive said like a hundred times now, if they the creators wanted lelouch dead so much, why did they do the ending like they did? They couldve just ended it with the Kallen Monolouge but no, they didnt. They skipped way out into the country, away from society and showed CC and a mysterious cart driver. Then the had her say “…guess thats a little wrong, nah lelouch?” then skip to the crane.
If he was truly dead, this scene would make no sense. Cranes mean nothing to CC.
January 1st, 2009 at 10:33 am
LOL well it looks like Zongetsu and Zing already said more or less everything that I wanted to say. However, I will just repeat once again that in an anime as ambiguous as Code Geass, there is more than one perspective to viewing the series and all Okouchi did was mention one way to look at it.
We of the Lulu alive group are mentioning another way to look at the series and at the end of the day, it’s your choice to chose which perspective to believe. So, my point is that Okouchi’s perspective of the series isn’t the only perspective that matters and not even Okouchi himself mentioned that his answers are the only correct answers to the numerous questions that occurred in the series.
Charred Knight, since you take pride in the author’s words, you will know that they mentioned that R2 didn’t go according to their plans, so you can’t deny that the series was a trainwreck. Even the authors themselves admit that there is alot of ambiguity in their anime and there are no right or wrong answers in animes that are ambiguous. However, it’s not like the alive group is giving any evidence which isn’t in the anime, we have given you scenes and quotes to prove our points but as I mentioned before, you are entitled to your opinion.
PS: Charred Knight, I would just like to mention that I was relieved when you admitted that you personally believed Lulu should be dead because all this time I thought you were just saying he’s dead just because Okouchi/Sunrise said he is dead so I just wanted to give you some credit for that because it’s annoying to debate with people who say Lulu is dead just because others say so.
January 1st, 2009 at 11:17 am
O______O Damn I missed alot, well 4 all the new ppl allow me 2 introduce myself, I am a Lulu alive supporter who dosnt represent any groups/forums I just go around & trash the ppl who trash talk the Lulu alive ppl, so let the destruction commence
@Charred Knight dude
Its good 2 see that ur maturing but u seriously need 2 stop referring 2 Okouchi’s words constantly b/c it makes ppl thing u dont have a mind of your own & u creeped me out when u said this “Brilliant, and Ballsy on the part of Okouchi.” Not even Okouchis staff says anything so kind to Okouchi & that statement makes me think ur obsessed with him (no offense). But I will also give u credit 4 finally admitting that u believe that Lulu should b dead instead of saying hes dead just b/c Okouchi says so.
@Miasmabitch
Who do u think u are? U just appear randomly & act like a smartass when ur not doing anything 2 defend ur position, all ur doing is calling the opposing side trolls/bias shippers. That’s fucked up, u make Charred Knight look like a saint. U think ur views r the only answer 2 geass & there is only 1 thing I have 2 say about that: GROW UP BITCH!!!!!!! But I do give u credit 4 admitting that Okouchi is lame, at least u dont obsess over his words like all the rest of the Lulu dead group
I would like 2 say something about the R2 trainwreck, well in Japan the popular animes are Naruto Shippuden & Bleach. Code Geass has recieved many awards but R2 hasnt recieved as much endorsement/popularity & thats b/c there were many important details which they left us in the dark about. The difference between animes like Naruto Shippuden/Bleach and Code Geass R2 is that there is no ambiguity & everything makes sence. There were many elements in R2 which were vague & in my opinion the battles against the Chinese Federation in R2 was pointless when it comes 2 the plot of the series & the season finally got back on track on ep 13 but thats when the ambiguity began. Also the Code Geass season finale was a special w/a different opening while the R2 finale was nothing special & popular animes such as Naruto Shippuden/Bleach have tons of specials but R2 never had 1 special. Quite frankly the R2 finale sequence was no different from any other R2 episode, normally Sunrise gives special op/end in anime finales so it goes 2 show that it wasn’t as popular as season 1
January 1st, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Zongetsu: Do not use the “official” Code Geass site as its worthless, its just a bunch of guys working for Biglobe that watch an episode and wrote down what they saw. Just look at the character description for Monica, or the fact that listed three characters as dead that where later revealed to be alive. They also never bothered to update Kallen’s character bio, and she’s one of the main characters. The Guide, and Okouchi are much better sources.
As for why Okouchi was Ambiguos in the TV series but repeatly stated that lelouch died in interviews and the guide? My belief is that the ambiguous ending was something Bandai forced him to do, since Bandai owns Sunrise Okouchi had to listen. Okouchi than gets around it by repeatly stating that Lelouch is dead in interviews, and has the guide mention it as much as possible.
Lulu Dead ppl Hater: having seen three of Okouchi’s series I will say that his a pretty good writer that should probably stick to working with other people’s work (I loved his work with Tomino). I find Code Geass (especially R2) to be easily his worst work, its a complete trainwreck where he sacrifices character development for PLOT TWISTS that are frankly incredibly stupid (Marianne is the shining example of a horrible plot twist). The KoR where interesting characters that where handled badly simply because their where too many of them, and none of them ever saw any character development. Then we get to the ending, which made absolutly no sense, you just can’t spend 49 episodes showing that Britannians are evil than finish it with an episode that shows them living in peace, because lelouch was an ass for 2 whole months.
So if I hated it so much why do I tell you to respect him? It’s because he did write it, he created Lelouch, and I think you should respect that.
January 1st, 2009 at 2:33 pm
As we mentioned multiple times, Okouchi had his chance to make Lulu’s death perfectly clear in the anime but he didn’t. Of course you can blame Sunrise/Bandai for screwing up the ending but the fact is that there is nothing that can be done to change the ending. The ending was percieved as an ambiguous end and he can’t go back and say how the ending should have been, that contradicts the existance of the anime in the first place.
We aren’t saying Okouchi is a bad writer but there is no denying that the Code Geass anime is completely different from the Code Geass manga. In the anime itself, one can put together the pieces of the puzzle which are given to prove their point of whether or not Lulu is dead or alive. As I mentioned multiple times, not even Okouchi himself said that his words are the only answers to the mysteries of the Code Geass anime.
Some people just think his words are the only answers when in reality the Code Geass anime has many double meanings which allow different perspectives to take place and at the end of the day there is no right or wrong answer of Lulu’s fate because the anime ending itself is open. All Okouchi can do is tell how Lulu’s “death” should have been percieved because there is nothing he can do to undo the ambiguity of the final episodes.
January 1st, 2009 at 3:00 pm
“My belief is that the ambiguous ending was something Bandai forced him to do, since Bandai owns Sunrise Okouchi had to listen.”
Or…maybe he wanted him alive by sunrise wanted him dead? So he purposely made it so you could view him as alive, but dead as well? You know, he doesnt mass produce anything, sunrise does. How do you know that this isnt the scenario?
As for geass.jp. It is the official site seriously. However people were listed dead and the correlation chart changed because for one, if we saw that they were still alive on the chart, it would ruin the episodes. Nunnally being alive is just one of these examples. If she wasnt listed as dead, we wouldnt have gotten the big, “WHOA…NUNNALLY!?” when she appeared again. So it was important to make her dead and then alive, thats what the current one says too, under her, guilford, sayako, it says that they are alive.
As for character developement, the last few episodes were, to me, mainly spent of developement of Lelouch and CC. As i stated earlier, there were more scenes with them then, than all the other times in the anime. You begin to see a strong bond between them. As for why lelouch waiting 2 months before coming out, it was because it marked the anniversary of the rise of Zero, the day he first started the black rebellion. Thats pretty much what i remember.
January 1st, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Geassfan101, while I do disagee with you, I do expect the fact that you are at least making sense As for Zongetsu
huh?
Why the hell would Sunrise want him dead? Code Geass was wildly succesful, and Lelouch was the most popular character. Sunrise would want Okouchi and Taniguchi to make more Code Geass starring Lelouch so they can make more money. It makes no sense to risk a cash cow like Code Geass by having Lelouch die.
Also Okouchi has flat out stated that Lelouch was dead, if your going to make post at least have them make some sense like Geassfan101.
January 1st, 2009 at 3:31 pm
@ zongetsu:
>> a bunch of :words:
Uh-huh, and none of that is actually solid proof that he’s alive. Try again.
January 1st, 2009 at 3:36 pm
More specific replies:
>>You just said it yourself, if there was bad blood someone would challenge someone. “Charles said in S1 17 that if Schneizel is confident enough and can actually challenge Charles, then let him.” Bad blood
…no, that’s encouraging Schneizel to win. “If Schneizel can actually take me on, then hey why not?”
>>We aren’t saying Okouchi is a bad writer but there is no denying that the Code Geass anime is completely different from the Code Geass manga.
What does the manga have to do with this?
>>Who do u think u are? U just appear randomly & act like a smartass when ur not doing anything 2 defend ur position, all ur doing is calling the opposing side trolls/bias shippers. That’s fucked up, u make Charred Knight look like a saint. U think ur views r the only answer 2 geass & there is only 1 thing I have 2 say about that: GROW UP BITCH!!!!!!! But I do give u credit 4 admitting that Okouchi is lame, at least u dont obsess over his words like all the rest of the Lulu dead group
Lol.
January 1st, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Well i had to go back and rewatch s1 ep 17, and i think you got the episode wrong, i think it mightve been r2 ep 17. Umm..thats not encouraging him to win, its more like, if you think you can win, challenge me. Besides..he knows scheizel cant defeat him, code remember?
lol
January 1st, 2009 at 7:59 pm
No he definatly said it in Season 1, I remember the english version
January 2nd, 2009 at 1:17 am
Hi everyone! First of all happy new year!
So I just finished a marathon run of Code Geass, finished both seasons in less than 3 days. At the very end, I came to a halt and could not believe that Lelouche was dead. I must admit that my mindset coming to this website was that Lelouche could not be dead, was not dead and must seem very biased. Thus, I sought out this very interesting debate about whether Lelouche is dead or not.
To be honest, I really just want to make one point clear, that of Geassfan101 and Zongetsu, that Code Geass has many vague points that cannot be proven one way or another. Tell me, how would you prove the whole Nunally truth-telling sequence? Is there any way to definitively say that she has magical powers? Is there any way to say that she doesn’t and that it’s just her intuition? I hope you agree with me that it is impossible to argue one way or another, and it just comes down to what you believe. Zongetsu, Geassfan101, and many others simply believe that Lelouche is alive, and that he is with C.C., serving out his punishment by living an eternal life knowing that he used Geass, caused countless deaths, gained the hatred of the world, and will never be able to satisfy his promise to the President to set off fireworks together with everyone. It is their choice to believe this, and they have every right to try to go around and convince people of their argument. It is not trolling when they try to engage outsiders who do not have the same beliefs as they do in the vain hope that you might change your mind. You (miasmacloud, charred knight, and jak), believe in Lelouche’s heroic sacrifice as choosing death when he wants to live. You want to believe in the facts of things (the more I read, the more it seems like the Lelouche lives faction is based on conjecture and the wishes of people for a “happy ending”) and the facts overwhelmingly support that Lelouche is dead. However, facts are everchanging (wasn’t it a “fact” that Nunally died in the first FLEIA explosion? – I know that this analogy is weak but consider that in a couple of years Sunrise might announce Code Geass R3 maybe even with a different scenario writer – the facts can change to that Lelouche has been alive all along). This is your own viewpoint, and you are just as unlikely as the Lelouche lives faction to change your mind.
I think what, in this argument, you’ve all forgotten is how great of an anime/story Code Geass was. Only a story this great could ever cause this much emotion/argument on a blog site. I mean seriously, would there be an argument like this about Air Gear? The reason all of you are willing to spend hours of your time reading through each other’s arguments, reading through different forums, spend time translating and subbing (miasmacloud – great subbing work by the way! thanks!) is because you loved this anime as much as I did. What’s the point in arguing about the same deadbeat subject over and over again? No matter the arguments in this blog, I came out of the anime with the feeling that Lelouche could not be dead, did not deserve to be dead, and that he has a happily ever after with C.C., and it is what I will always believe, no matter what the author says after producing the anime or any guidebook or any website. It is the integrity of my feelings that is important, just as the integrity of your feelings are important as well. So please, lets ring in the new years with some agreement – that Code Geass was one of the best anime shows that we’ve watched in a while, and that Lelouche lives forever with C.C. happily (jk jk :p).
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:35 am
>>Well i had to go back and rewatch s1 ep 17, and i think you got the episode wrong, i think it mightve been r2 ep 17. Umm..thats not encouraging him to win, its more like, if you think you can win, challenge me. Besides..he knows scheizel cant defeat him, code remember?
>>lol
No, he says it in S1 17.
So far in this thread you’ve:
- Fabricated the existence of a fansub that said “Defeat me with the power of kings if you want to surpass the power of kings”.
- Said that surpass and succeed mean the same thing.
- Said that “challenge” means people have bad blood.
- Said that a line Charles said in S1 17 apparently doesn’t exist, even though it is in S1 17.
Keep it up.
>>However, facts are everchanging (wasn’t it a “fact” that Nunally died in the first FLEIA explosion?
You could tell that Nunnally didn’t die in FLEIA because she was on-board a different ship than Ms. Rohmeyer and there was a 2nd ship located in the background when Ms. Rohmeyer loaded Nunnally onto her ship. Try watching Geass using 5% of your brain power.
January 2nd, 2009 at 4:30 am
@elitec1der28
Ur right, Code Geass is a great anime but sadly R2 didn’t score as high as the origional version did in Japan & that’s because they left us in the dark about alot of things but in my opinion the ambiguous end of R2 is fitting b/c it was an ambiguous season & as Geassdude said, the ending remains ambiguous & Idc if Okouchi wanted it that way or not b/c the anime is over & the ending wont b changed
@Charred Knight dude
Dont worry, I am sure Okouchi will kill off Lulu in his 3 Code Geass mangas so I am sure that an ambiguous anime ending wont crush ur hopes 2 much b/c his death will b completely clear in all 3 of the Code Geass mangas
January 2nd, 2009 at 5:00 am
Well no matter how you look at it, this debate comes down to whether or not it’s appropriate for Okouchi to tell how the anime ending was supposed to be percieved after the anime is over. I agree with Lulu dead ppl’s comment that ambiguous ends are fitting to ambiguous animes such as Code Geass R2.
The debate also comes down to how you percieve Okouchi’s words, in my opinion, Okouchi was just showing us one perspective of the ending. However, since the ending was ambiguous, more perspectives can take place. So at the end of the day there is no right or wrong answer to the ambiguity of Code Geass and not even Okouchi himself never said that his words are the only answers to the numerous mysteries of Code Geass. In fact, he even mentioned that he never intended to explain everything in the anime. So, at the end of the day it’s your choice of whether or not you share the same views as Okouchi because there is no right or wrong answer in an anime with an open end.
I am aware that I have repeated those statements multiple times but I just wanted to reiterate the fact that Code Geass is the type of anime that makes people reflect, and at the end of the day there is no right or wrong answer to the way the series is supposed to be percieved. All Okouchi can do is mention how he wanted the anime series to be percieved.
@Charred Knight
As Lulu dead ppl said, Okouchi can execute his vision in his 3 Code Geass mangas so I doubt that he cares about whether or not people percieve the anime as an open end because he has a chance to execute his vision in the 3 Code Geass mangas and not even Sunrise/Bandai can control the mangas. In that aspect, there is no need for you to be so defensive about what happened in the anime because the mangas will reflect his true vision of Code Geass. My point is that Okouchi couldn’t care less whether or not people agree with his statements about the anime because he has a chance to exectute his true vision in the mangas.
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:45 am
@elitec1der28
Whose side are you on? If youre in between, its just worse, for youll be both our enemies. You say that you believe he is alive, yet support evidence of his death. No sense. Denial. If you believe he is alive prove it just like us.
To you, or even in the world of code geass, has anyone ever developed super natural powers on their own? The only super natural power in the geass universe is geass itself, and the code. Her supersense is due to her being blind for seven years. It heigtened all her senses. For instance, ep 3, she senses lelouch coming way before ninja sayako does. Yeah, that takes some skill, and then she was also able to identify suzaku by his hand, “..This hand…Im so glad youre alright! *tear drop*” yes…she said “this hand”.
It is just as lelouch said in the beginning of the series as he looks at a group of bystanders doing nothing. “idiots, all of them..”, yeah, just stand around and do nothing, live as youre told.
>>So far in this thread you’ve:
- Fabricated the existence of a fansub that said “Defeat me with the power of kings if you want to surpass the power of kings”.
- Said that surpass and succeed mean the same thing.
- Said that “challenge” means people have bad blood.
- Said that a line Charles said in S1 17 apparently doesn’t exist, even though it is in S1 17.
Ill find where i saw that, i just dont know who subbed it, great job paying attention, however your own sub was incorrect. “Play by the book. If you want to inherit the Power of Kings, that is.” compared to “come at me with the power of kings if you wish to succed the power of kings.” You cant inherit what you already have. Geass is the power of kings, you cant have two seperate geass. It would make no sense how you would want it. Admit it, no sense.
>>Surpass and Succeed is 2 different words with completely different meaning, how ever. They can be applied to have same meaning.
Well said Zing
>>Said that “challenge” means people have bad blood.
Lelouch wanted to challenge the emperor, bad blood between, them. When it was over lelouch came out victorious. Point proven.
>>Said that a line Charles said in S1 17 apparently doesn’t exist, even though it is in S1 17.
Beleive it or not, i said it maybe wasnt in the episode for i didnt feel like watching it all, so i fast warded it. It mustve been a really short scene.
>>However, facts are everchanging (wasn’t it a “fact” that Nunally died in the first FLEIA explosion?
You could tell that Nunnally didn’t die in FLEIA because she was on-board a different ship than Ms. Rohmeyer and there was a 2nd ship located in the background when Ms. Rohmeyer loaded Nunnally onto her ship. Try watching Geass using 5% of your brain power.
Me, i must be blind or something because i didnt see a second ship in the background. The only scene where i saw her on a ship was when rolo was close to it. And the closest thing to a ship was the knightmares nearby. But still, even if im wrong and i missed it, it doesnt change the fact that we STILL see her get engulfed by fleia. The light, it was blinding.
@miasmacloud, i like how you like to poke holes in our theory, however when i point out holes and contradictions in yours, you simply ignore it. Any time you feel like pointing out something wrong in our theory, we answer it. When we point one out in yours, you ignore it and reply by pointing out our human flaws.
Things you still have yet to answer
>>explain the final scene, crane and all
>>explain how charles died, he was immortal
>>explain zero requiem
>>solid proof he is dead
>>nunnallys reason to live
>>how to atone for sins
>>official site still having him alive
>>contradictions between anime, creators, webiste
>>codes and geass
>>why lelouch and CC arent a cannon couple
>>why CC wouldnt want to be wish lelouch
>>CC true wish
>>lelouchs promises to nunnally and CC
>>why the title of the anime is CODE GEASS
>>second season named R2 instead of the second season?
>>reason for suzaku to live
seriously i could go on and on, but i dont feel the need to, those should be enough to keep you busy for now. I can answer all of those easily, how about you? And unlike the explanation im going to hear, mine acutally makes sense, and connects perfectly. no contradictions.
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:34 am
I will answer your 16 questions some made me think for 30 seconds but most where quite easy
1. Expalin the final scene: C.C made the crane, and she was talking about how she has regained the will to live, and no longer feels lonely.
2. How did Charles die: Charles dissapeared, Code isn’t going to regenerate something that isn’t there
3. Explain Zero Requiem: Lelouch makes himself the enemy of everyone, Suzaku kills him and becomes Zero (I don’t even know why you asked This)
4. Proof that Lelouch died: He got a large sword thrusted into him, and he died in Nunnaly’s arms
5. Nunnaly’s reason to live: because Lelouch wanted her to, and she is one of the few people competent enough to run a lemonade stand
6. How to atone for his sins: Lelouch died, and Suzaku became Zero
7. Why is Lelouch still alive on the website: The Website is put out by biglobe which had a sponsorship deal, its not done by the creators. It also probably hasn’t been updated recently, and doesn’t have info taken from the guide
8. Reason for the difference between Anime, Creators, and Website: I already explained why Okouchi wrote the ending like he did, and I just explained why the official website is so bad. From everything I have heard (since I like in the USA not Japan) Geass net is better which is probably why its only availiable in Japan with cellphones, most likely some kind of deal sunrise made.
9. Code and geass: what about Code and geass?
10. Why Lelouch and CC are not the canon couple? Ask Okouchi why he decided not to have a canon couple unless you call Lelouch and Nunnaly a canon couple. It’s his anime not mine, if I did create a canon couple I would have a harem ending
11. Why CC wouldn’t want to be with Lelouch? She did want to be with Lelouch why do you think she was crying? She just accepted Lelouch’s wish and moved on.
12. CC true wish: It changed from wanting to die, to wanting to live
13. Lelouch’s promise to Nunnaly and CC: I don’t remember a promise to Nunnaly, and I am pretty sure he did make CC smile
14. The title: It has Geass, and it has Code, hence Code Geass, their is absolutly nothing to suggest that their is anyone who can have both Code, and Geass.
15. The name of R2: Its stands for Revolution, and Reconstruction
16 reason for Suzaku to live: Suzaku wanted to die, to atone for his sins in the harshest way possible, he was forced to live permantly as Zero. He never wanted to live after the first season he just couldn’t kill himself due to the Live Geass.
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:06 am
This is seriously FUBAR.
Lets start a new: why would Charles want to force past upon other people?
January 2nd, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Thats an easy question and unlike Charred knight, i wont answer the question with one sentence.
It all started out when he was a child. He lived in a war riden family. The royal family. This family of his continously fought to gain control of the empire and in its process his mother was killed. We dont see how she is, but we can assume she was run over due to the his flash back. During this time, he and his brother VV made a pact, that of never lying. We can probably assume that Charles kept his part for he showed all his human emotions in the world. His hate was expressed. Its as we can say, the truth hurts. In ep 6 of the first season, he gave a speech about mankind. Stating all the real truths, about us, such as people arent created equal, some are born smarter, or more beautiful, or with parents of greater status. Truth is, its survival of the fittest.
VV wish as we could see, was that of destroying the gods. I believe that they wanted to change the world such as lelouch. They saw that people lied, and hurt others. This is probably where they inserted the, we shall never lie, part. They wished that they wouldve had a normal life, living happily with everyone they knew, such as their mom. After all, she was killed when they were still pretty young.
So in the end, it was a selfish dream. One that only befitted him and his selected others. He didnt care about others as long as he got what he wanted. He wanted to be happy too, but it was wrong how he wanted to. Lelouch was just like this, until he realized that it wasnt just for him, but he needed the world to change for everyone. Lelouch began the war to create a world for nunnally to live in. As he stated in r2 ep 23, he cannot treat nunnally special anymore, it was for something much bigger, a change for everyone. In the end, everyone was happy. Nunnally had a reason to live, suzaku. Zero’s legend was carried on. kallen got to live with her mom. CC and lelouch are somewhere together. Lelouch didnt force this upon anyone, they chose to move forward, he was just the spark to start it.
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:58 pm
>>Ill find where i saw that, i just dont know who subbed it, great job paying attention, however your own sub was incorrect. “Play by the book. If you want to inherit the Power of Kings, that is.” compared to “come at me with the power of kings if you wish to succed the power of kings.” You cant inherit what you already have. Geass is the power of kings, you cant have two seperate geass. It would make no sense how you would want it. Admit it, no sense.
For the 80th time he doesn’t even say “Come at me with the power of Kings”. Eclipse’s doesn’t even say that, theirs says “Come at me through the way of Kings”. He’s telling Lelouch to act the act of royalty, if he wants to be it. The difference inbetween my and Eclipse’s sub is how oudou is interpreted, and if “play by the book” isn’t right, then Eclipse’s is wrong too. You must want something literal like “Take the path of nobility is good”, amirite? Because that’s literally what he says.
But then again since you don’t understand that surpass and succeed are different words I don’t expect you to understand this. I guess you don’t know where the words “succession” and “successor” come from.
>>Lelouch wanted to challenge the emperor, bad blood between, them. When it was over lelouch came out victorious. Point proven.
…uhm, no. Charles is, mind you, smiling when he says this. If Schneizel has the confidence to challenge Charles, and figure out all of his shit, then let him.
“Bad blood” would be him being angry that Schneizel is heading towards Kamine Island and investigating the ruin.
But then again since you don’t understand that surpass and succeed are different words I don’t expect you to understand this. I guess you don’t know where the words “succession” and “successor” come from.
>>Beleive it or not, i said it maybe wasnt in the episode for i didnt feel like watching it all, so i fast warded it. It mustve been a really short scene.
Uh-huh. In other words you lack the ability to pay attention to details.
>>Me, i must be blind or something because i didnt see a second ship in the background. The only scene where i saw her on a ship was when rolo was close to it. And the closest thing to a ship was the knightmares nearby. But still, even if im wrong and i missed it, it doesnt change the fact that we STILL see her get engulfed by fleia. The light, it was blinding.
…yeah uhm go re-watch it then, because there is a 2nd ship in the background when Nunnally is being loaded onto her shuttle.
But I’ll take “I’m blind” as an answer.
>>@miasmacloud, i like how you like to poke holes in our theory, however when i point out holes and contradictions in yours, you simply ignore it.
What theory of mine? I have no complex, intricate theory full of bullshit like yours because I am not trying to explain everything that happened in the anime. But you are in your process to explain that Lelouch is alive. You’re making up your own things to fill in the holes. You all of all people who constantly tell me that GEASS IS A TRAINWRECK AND YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING AND YOU’RE NOT SUPPOSED TO!!! should understand this. Yours doesn’t connect because it relies entirely on bullshit. Again: Admit your being an irrational Lelouch x CC fanboy and I’ll go away.
>>explain the final scene, crane and all
CC started making a pink crane in S1 05, but Lelouch interrupts her. And that was the beginning of their time as partners. By R2 25, she’s finished it. This is called “symbolism”, and it symbolizes that Lelouch is no longer with CC.
>>explain how charles died, he was immortal
The World of C is both God and not-God, for it is also the human collective, it is man made, and thus Geass itself is not a godly power but it is one that humans don’t really have. Lelouch asked the rest of humanity/the World of C/God to give them a tomorrow. Those who were trying to prevent a tomorrow were Charles and Marianne. In order to give Lelouch a tomorrow, the World of C removes Charles and Marianne. How is this hard to understand? Charles’ power is related to the World of C. If anything is going to be able to take it away, it’ll be the World of C.
>>explain zero requiem
The original Zero, Lelouch, deceives the world into unifying against him, and he dies. His requiem is the peaceful sound of the world in the aftermath of his death.
(Hint: A requiem is, in its most basic form, a prayer for the dead.)
This could also mean that “Zero has died”, and to the viewer this is true because Lelouch was Zero from S1 04 on.
Which then raises the question of if Zero is really a “person”, especially after turning himself into a symbol in R2 08.
>>solid proof he is dead
He got stabbed by a sword and he’s not an immortal.
>>nunnallys reason to live
…What does this have to do with Lelouch being dead? Seriously.
Do you think that Nunnally is suicidal and there’s NO WAY she’d be alive without Lelouch? Give me a fucking break. This supports Charred Knight’s bullshit about Lelouch x Nunnally if anything.
>>how to atone for sins
For Lelouch? Being denied the ability to live in the world you made better. Don’t give me bullshit about how living and OMG SUFFERING FOR ETERNITY is “atonment”, because with his death, he not only denied himself happiness, but he also denied multiple others, such as Nunnally, happiness.
>>official site still having him alive
No one updated it.
>>contradictions between anime, creators, webiste
Which contradictions are you talking about in specific exactly?
>>codes and geass
…what about them? Codes are powers that represent what normal humans think they want but in reality don’t. Geass represents forcing your desires onto another person.
>>why lelouch and CC arent a cannon couple
Because Lelouch was a teenager who, instead of checking out the ladies, devoted all of his time and energy to destroying Britannia and making the world a better place.
>>why CC wouldnt want to be wish lelouch
…What does this have to do with Lelouch being dead? Seriously.
>>CC true wish
…What does this have to do with Lelouch being dead? Seriously.
>>lelouchs promises to nunnally and CC
…What does this have to do with Lelouch being dead? Seriously.
>>why the title of the anime is CODE GEASS
…What does this have to do with Lelouch being dead? Seriously.
>>second season named R2 instead of the second season?
…What does this have to do with Lelouch being dead? Seriously.
Actually, it’s been said throughout various magazine articles that R2 stands for nothing in particular. They just named it that because they could.
>>reason for suzaku to live
…What does this have to do with Lelouch being dead? Seriously.
Do you think that Suzaku is suicidal and there’s NO WAY he’d be alive without Lelouch? Give me a fucking break. This supports fangirl bullshit about Lelouch x Suzaku.
You know, if I was a delusional person who was going to argue that Lelouch is alive, I would argue that CC passed him her Code off-screen because you don’t see the sigil on her forehead in the end of R2 25. However to you all this means no Lelouch x CC for eternity, so lol.
Speaking of which, I’m still waiting for an answer on how “Lelouch loves CC and they’ll be together for all of eternity” is a “punishment” for Lelouch.
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Yes, just to say, i am quite tired with repeating myself over and over.
>>What theory of mine? I have no complex, intricate theory full of bullshit like yours because I am not trying to explain everything that happened in the anime. But you are in your process to explain that Lelouch is alive. You’re making up your own things to fill in the holes.
First of all, i dont fill in the holes with made up stuff. Everything that i have put into it has come from any releases from the anime, including episodes, sound episodes, picture dramas, and character songs. As long as you comprehend these, you can find out the truth behind it.
Second, the reason why you cant see the truth is because you dont have all the pieces. If you tried to connect all the evidence you have as it is, it would not fit together. I really like your line:
“I have no complex, intricate theory full of bullshit like yours because I am not trying to explain everything that happened in the anime.”
If you dont explain it all, how does it make sense? Everything in the anime happened for a reason. Even if it was a bit off topic, it still had an important scene in it.
I chose these two because these are big issues in the anime
>>explain the final scene, crane and all
CC started making a pink crane in S1 05, but Lelouch interrupts her. And that was the beginning of their time as partners. By R2 25, she’s finished it. This is called “symbolism”, and it symbolizes that Lelouch is no longer with CC.
-CC did begin to make a pink crane, in s1 ep 5 however, she was interrupted and never finished. However, just to destroy you on this topic, Sayako also made a pink crane s1 ep 3, and gave it to nunnally. This crane, Nunnallys crane, was seen multiple times in the anime as a symbol for her, for instance, in r2 ep 6 on a chess board near lelouch, and right before fleia blew up, in her lap. You really must be narrow minded. If he was no longer with him, why even add the final scene? Couldve ended it with the Kallen epilouge, but nope, it didnt. They even wasted 8 seconds of animation time on the cart driver alone. Cranes dont mean anything to CC. And as you all say, she was happy becuase of lelouchs, memories, dont you think the black king piece would be a more suitable memoir? yes, contradict the anime.
>>explain how charles died, he was immortal
The World of C is both God and not-God, for it is also the human collective, it is man made, and thus Geass itself is not a godly power but it is one that humans don’t really have. Lelouch asked the rest of humanity/the World of C/God to give them a tomorrow. Those who were trying to prevent a tomorrow were Charles and Marianne. In order to give Lelouch a tomorrow, the World of C removes Charles and Marianne. How is this hard to understand? Charles’ power is related to the World of C. If anything is going to be able to take it away, it’ll be the World of C.
-For one, and youre missing a HUGE point. Geass is the power of kings. It isnt a godly power at all, the code is. It is the power of gods. You know…gods bestow powers on kings, blah blah. Yeah…also you mustve, once again, IGNORED a point a made. He didnt ask the gods to “to not stop the progress of time”, but instead GEASSED them to. And, an analogy i used earlier, the world of C became his weapon which he used to kill charles, thus taking his code. Ntm Marriane also died.
>>Charles’ power is related to the World of C. If anything is going to be able to take it away, it’ll be the World of C.
*sigh*…you really are retarded arent you. Charles power has nothing to do with the world of C, his power is the same as CC. It makes him immortal, for one, and immune to amatuer geass. The world of C killed charles, because lelouch geassed it to. It was because charles wanted to stop time that he got killed. “Do not stop the progess of time…” obviously anything stopping the progess of time would get eliminated. Duh…you totally forgot about the whole, mature geass kill a code guy.
To be honest, CCxLelouch did not exist that much in CG. In the first season, up until ep 15 it was hardly even alive. Till then it was Shirlulu. But things change, due to plot twist, it did not revive fully till r2 ep 15. wow coincidence?? However we all knew that lelouch had feelings for CC. Even though it wasnt fully shown it was there.
So , our fun and games are over, im getting pretty fed up talking to a wall, that doesnt listen yet talks and talks and talks. You claim to be a supporter of him being dead yet, you contradict yourself, for one, you do not believe in the AMAZING geass-net. Two, you attack your own supporters. Three, you have no proof yourself yet call our proof false or not solid enough.
You claim our theory relies entirely on bullshit. Well look in the mirror, youre the one making claims on nothing. You dont believe in geass-net, you believe okouchi is a retard. Thats all your evidence there, and you deny them all? Arent you contradicting yourself here? Sure you can say Lelouch died because he was stabbed with a sword, but couldnt i say Guilford died because he was engulfed by Fleia? same with nunnally? We all saw them disappear in the light, yet, they lived. And, you still have yet to
>>prove lelouch doesnt have a code
>>Fill in the blank parts in the scripts, such as “Im you…” “youre my…”
Sigh…ill say yet again, you missed the entire point of code geass if you missed out what a code was, and what geass is.
>>Codes are powers that represent what normal humans think they want but in reality don’t. Geass represents forcing your desires onto another person.
Now i can LOL real loud…come on everyone, lets LOL real loud while ROFLMOFAO
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:18 pm
oops added too many letters lol
ROFLOFAO
rolling on the floor laugh our F***ing a**es off
haha…and i really thought you knew what you were talking about miasmacloud….
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:28 pm
YAY I HAVE FOUND MORE CONVERSATIONS TO READ AND I KIND OF QUIT HALFWAY DOWN.
So, in short, tl;dr most of it. Based on the last line of the post above me, I have formulated a new idea. Clearly, Mao is still alive and traveling with Lelouch while C.C. is riding on a cart with some random old dude. Living with Mao would be complete hell, would it not?
“I’m going to make you compact!”
“God damnit Mao, shut up already!”
Mm… Delicious insanity.
And before both sides assault me with paragraphs of doom, I will just say that I am a supporter of Lelouch living, I am not a Lelouch x C.C. (I prefer Kaguya) fan, I think Guilford should be dead, and I find it strange Cornelia didn’t try to plan a coup after Lelouch died. Miasma, I didn’t read most of your posts, I am sorry, but I will answer any questions you ask of me to the best of my abilities based on my beliefs. I know that the foundation that I base Lelouch being alive is shaky, and I sometimes have trouble putting my thoughts into words, but at least I will try to make some sense.
BTW:
LOL CHARACTER SONGS. This is fucking priceless. Gino and Xingke had a character song together, this must mean their BFF’s right?!
Well, I was going to cut&paste a picture of Gino and Xing-ke onto Ougi’s wedding picture, but I gave up. Made me sad, that picture would’ve been epic.
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:42 pm
Ill be the first to attack you with a paragraph of doom! =p
Our foundation isnt shaky at all. Everything we have links to each other, and fully completes the story. However miasma cloud with her perception only has bits and parts which she “claims” tells the whole truth. Logically that names no sense seriously.
>>Clearly, Mao is still alive and traveling with Lelouch while C.C. is riding on a cart with some random old dude. Living with Mao would be complete hell, would it not?
For one, Mao cannot talk anymore…lelouch geassed him to shut up. and two…CC killed him telling him to wait for her. But…we all know she denied him for lelouch. So, ending possible? no.
>>LOL CHARACTER SONGS. This is fucking priceless. Gino and Xingke had a character song together, this must mean their BFF’s right?!
Well, I was going to cut&paste a picture of Gino and Xing-ke onto Ougi’s wedding picture, but I gave up. Made me sad, that picture would’ve been epic.
Sigh…ill say it again, its not who sung it, its what it means to the character. I may not have this accurate, but ill say it as i did before, i thought it was, and im not sure, but it was about the new world. It would be perfect for them to sing it as they dont get much air time. We all know what happened to everyone else, and how they perceived it, so in the end, what do xingke, who betrayed zero, and gino, who betrayed britannia think on the new world? There you get your answer. However i think the song was horrible =/
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:47 pm
I wasn’t being serious you know <.<;
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:13 pm
I hated the Shenhu. It seemed like a very convenient excuse for laziness.
“Oh, it is another mecha we went all out on and never told you about before, despite the fact that even at less than half maximum power it and wtfpwn the Guren Aerial Type.”
Then again, most everything that came after Gawain was like that. Even Gawain was pretty sad. I would’ve been happy if they all weren’t flying around all the time. The battles with just the Gekkas (Or whatever), Sutherlands, and Gloucesters were really nice. I didn’t mind the Guren or the Lancelot. Bismark’s was okay, but I never liked the Tristan, or Gino himself.
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Sorry for the triple, but that and is supposed to be a can.
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:21 pm
>>First of all, i dont fill in the holes with made up stuff. Everything that i have put into it has come from any releases from the anime, including episodes, sound episodes, picture dramas, and character songs. As long as you comprehend these, you can find out the truth behind it.
Yes, yes you do. All of it is made up based on your irrational desires to see Lelouch x CC together.
>>However, just to destroy you on this topic, Sayako also made a pink crane s1 ep 3, and gave it to nunnally. This crane, Nunnallys crane, was seen multiple times in the anime as a symbol for her, for instance, in r2 ep 6 on a chess board near lelouch, and right before fleia blew up, in her lap. You really must be narrow minded. If he was no longer with him, why even add the final scene? Couldve ended it with the Kallen epilouge, but nope, it didnt. They even wasted 8 seconds of animation time on the cart driver alone. Cranes dont mean anything to CC. And as you all say, she was happy becuase of lelouchs, memories, dont you think the black king piece would be a more suitable memoir? yes, contradict the anime.
I am specifically talking about CC’s crane. If you want to ask about other people’s cranes, then you should have asked so from the start.
>>-For one, and youre missing a HUGE point. Geass is the power of kings. It isnt a godly power at all, the code is. It is the power of gods. You know…gods bestow powers on kings, blah blah. Yeah…also you mustve, once again, IGNORED a point a made. He didnt ask the gods to “to not stop the progress of time”, but instead GEASSED them to. And, an analogy i used earlier, the world of C became his weapon which he used to kill charles, thus taking his code. Ntm Marriane also died.
And it seems that you missed a big point about Geass in R2 21: There is no “God” nor are there “Gods” nor is there “Godly Power”. The World of C, a.k.a. Jupiter, a.k.a. God, a.k.a. the Human Unconscious is a collection of thoughts of memories of humans. It’s effectively history and the past. In other words, God is not some “being”, it is name given to the history of mankind.
Furthermore, the relationship of Code Bearer and Geass User is that of the chicken and the egg: If a Code Bearer is a Geass user with Geass in two eyes who levels up and gets a Code, then where did the person who they got their Code from get theirs from?
>>*sigh*…you really are retarded arent you. Charles power has nothing to do with the world of C, his power is the same as CC. It makes him immortal, for one, and immune to amatuer geass. The world of C killed charles, because lelouch geassed it to. It was because charles wanted to stop time that he got killed. “Do not stop the progess of time…” obviously anything stopping the progess of time would get eliminated. Duh…you totally forgot about the whole, mature geass kill a code guy.
No, his and CC’s power is related to the World of C: Where do you think the memories that Lelouch sees when he touches CC are from? The memories and dead people (Suzaku’s Dad) are directly in-link with the World of C.
>>Now i can LOL real loud…come on everyone, lets LOL real loud while ROFLMOFAO
Humans want to be more than human. Since people could yearn, they have yearned for the idea of immortality. Chinese Emperors had court Alchemists try to bew them an Elixir of Life. But Codes — magical powers and immortality — are “in-human”. Remember, Lelouch at first refers to CC in such a way. CC considers the power a curse. Thus, they represent what you think you want but what you really don’t want.
Geass represents your wishes and desires forced on another person. All of the Geasses presented in the show have presented a way of controlling someone, indirectly or directly, through the power. It’s like it channels your selfishness.
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:22 pm
>>Humans want to be more than human. Since people could yearn, they have yearned for the idea of immortality. Chinese Emperors had court Alchemists try to bew them an Elixir of Life. But Codes — magical powers and immortality — are “in-human”. Remember, Lelouch at first refers to CC in such a way. CC considers the power a curse. Thus, they represent what you think you want but what you really don’t want.
bew -> brew
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:27 pm
>>I am specifically talking about CC’s crane. If you want to ask about other people’s cranes, then you should have asked so from the start.
Huh, forgot the part under it.
“Cranes mean nothing to CC” is bullshit. Go rewatch S1 05 when you see CC actually folding a pink crane. You never see her finish it. Then she has a finished one in R2 25. This is (still) called symbolism, and it (still) symbolizes that Lelouch and CC are separated. None of what you said about other people’s cranes actually changes that.
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Miasmacloud your missing something right under your nose
1. The crane equals Nunnaly
2. The crane was next to C.C
3. Since Crane=Nunnaly, than Nunnaly must be next to C.C
4. The only person with C.C was the Cart Driver so since Crane=Nunnaly, than Nunnaly=Cart Driver
So why would Nunnaly be with C.C?
It’s because Nunnaly is C.C’s lesbian lover
Obviously this must be the super secret ending that Okouchi came up with by having you play all the games, listen to all the character songs, listen to all the Audio Dramas, watch all the picture dramas, watch every episode, and read every novel.
Seriously Zongetsu their is no super secret ending that Okouchi isn’t telling anyone and lying about it. The ending was pretty straightforward. I don’t know how you can basically treat Okouchi like a moron one instant and then treat him like a god the next.
Once again you have stopped making any sense, at least Geassfan101 didn’t give me crap about how I don’t understand the ending since I didn’t listen to the character songs.
January 3rd, 2009 at 3:23 am
@Charred Knight
No, the final episode wasn’t percieved as a clear ending by any means. That’s why the whole Lulu alive/dead debate exists in the first place. The ending created tons of confusion due to some ambiguous scenes. Okouchi might have wanted the anime ending to be “straightforward” as you say but the fact is that it was vague and majority of the viewers percieved it the same way.
As I mentioned before, Okouchi didn’t even care about Code Geass R2 by any means because it did not gain as much popularity as the first season did and because Sunrise made him rewrite the entire story. I think we can all agree that the Code Geass anime overall wasn’t Okouchi’s true vision of Code Geass. The 3 Code Geass mangas show Okouchi’s true vision and he had a chance to make his vision completely clear in the anime but he didn’t.
Of course you can always blame Sunrise/Bandai for that but the fact is that nobody can undo the ambiguity of the entire R2 series so therefore Okouchi’s answers aren’t necessarily the only answers to the series. The R2 season had many double meanings, and there were many important details which haven’t been explained properly so at the end of the day an ambiguous end suits an ambiguous anime if you ask me. I viewed Okouchi’s words as one perspective to the series, I also saw his statement as a way of saying “this is how the ending was supposed to be percieved.” However, since Code Geass is a series with ambiguity/double meanings, there is room for many different perspectives to arise. Zongetsu and I are simply trying to show a different perspective of the series and at the end of the day you can choose whether or not to believe that perspective.
As for Okouchi, I don’t think you should be dissapointed that people won’t listen to him because the fact is that he can execute his true vision in the 3 Code Geass mangas. We can all agree that the anime is not Okouchi’s origional vision so I don’t see why you are talking as if Okouchi’s voice isn’t heard because the truth is that he is going to do things his way in the 3 Code Geass mangas and nobody can stop him this time. Since you are a fan of Okouchi, you should be satisfied with that because Okouchi will execute his true vision in the mangas despite whether or not people agree with his statements about the anime. Since you are someone who respects Okouchi’s work, I don’t see why you care more about his statements about the anime than his true vision of Code Geass which is shown in the 3 Code Geass mangas.
January 3rd, 2009 at 3:24 am
Maybe the manga will clear this up <.<;;.. Wonder how long it’ll be until their done. The series seems really hallow without the addition of Knightmares. Or the novel.. Maybe one of the games. I believe in work such as Manga, Novels, Anime, and games are the only way to really present something if it has been made into one of them. Not through an interview.
January 3rd, 2009 at 4:00 am
First thing i want to say
Charred knight, what is going on in your mind seriously. For one, and ill point it out again, it wouldnt make sense for Nunnally is with Zerozaku. Bam, killed your statement.
>>Yes, yes you do. All of it is made up based on your irrational desires to see Lelouch x CC together.
I would like to see them together however, you cant convict someone who isnt guilty right? I wont fabricate stuff to pair them, i go on what i see. It would have absolutely been Shirlulu if for one, he did not meet CC, or if her dad hadnt died. But it happened anyway. Shirley was important to him for he took CC’s advice on it. To protect whose he wishes not to lose, he distanced her from himself, making her forget everything. CC knew that lelouch really cared for this woman, and deep down inside was jealous, and sad of the fact. That is why she almost lost her will to live in r2 15. Shirley had just died, and lelouch wanted to eradicate the geass cult as revenge for her. CC knew this perfectly well. She knew she had lost her reason to live. CC even conversed with Marianne on this topic “dont be jealous? Dont be like that, hes just a…” It was obvious she was jealous for she had an angry tone when she said this.
>>Yes, yes you do. All of it is made up based on your irrational desires to see Lelouch x CC together.
Just to say, didnt i already clearly say, it it truly didnt exist till ep 15 of the first season. Im not being biased here. Its just how it adds up. If you got a happy CC in the end, lelouch did not die. She clearly chose to live, because of him, over her death wish that wouldve been granted. In the anime they constantly talk about reasons to live, and to fight. Lelouch became her reason to live. He promised to bring her happiness “Ill make you smile dammit!”. Then within the final 10 episodes, we see them bond even closer. Ntm ive already said that there were more scenes with them during this time than in the rest of the anime?
>>Seriously Zongetsu their is no super secret ending that Okouchi isn’t telling anyone and lying about it. The ending was pretty straightforward. I don’t know how you can basically treat Okouchi like a moron one instant and then treat him like a god the next.
I do not like Okouchi, animating the ending as he did only contradicts his statements
>>I don’t know how you can basically treat Okouchi like a moron one instant and then treat him like a god the next.
Youre the one doing it, first you say he is a retard then youre like, yes is is right. Contradict yourself dont ya?
>>Humans want to be more than human. Since people could yearn, they have yearned for the idea of immortality. Chinese Emperors had court Alchemists try to bew them an Elixir of Life. But Codes — magical powers and immortality — are “in-human”. Remember, Lelouch at first refers to CC in such a way. CC considers the power a curse. Thus, they represent what you think you want but what you really don’t want.
CC did not want to be more than human, when she made the contract, she only wanted to live a normal life. The code was forced upon her by the nun. “Sorry, you were fooled! *shocked face*”
Then CC did indeed suffer wounds. A code regenerates you body to the state it was when it first activated, leave behind scars and such. When you saw CC naked, did you see a scar under her left breast? No…during the struggle, she mustve gotten it for the code does not regenerate that area. As for the nun…she obviously didnt bleed anywhere besides the back of her head…it wasnt her blood on CC.
And, you are talking about something entirely different. Geass has no relation to Chinese empires. Besides, that is in our reality. In code geass, china=not as amazing as you think it is.
>>“Cranes mean nothing to CC” is bullshit. Go rewatch S1 05 when you see CC actually folding a pink crane. You never see her finish it. Then she has a finished one in R2 25. This is (still) called symbolism, and it (still) symbolizes that Lelouch and CC are separated. None of what you said about other people’s cranes actually changes that.
Cranes mean nothing to her. It was merely a past time with Nunnally. For instance, in sound episode 11.351, she tells nunnally, next time, teach more origami okay? Indeed she was seen folding cranes with nunnally in this episode, however from the same episode, you learn that her cranes suck. It was misfolded and wabbled when you set it down. This is nothing near the quality of Nunnallys crane.
Please prove you know that she finished it.
Why would she put a random crane in front of a cart, next to the driver is my next question. Why why why? She wouldnt duh…It would serve much better as a memior of Nunnally, remember he lost her? as well as everything else in his life? He even lost his name.
Put that with some statements and it all makes sense…
“you changed your family name to lamperouge, yet you kept your christian name lelouch. You simply couldnt let go of the past could you?” -CC ep 10
Well to add to this to can take of the R2 of the title right. After all you said yourself that it really didnt mean anything, but to me it does. It would only make sense that an immortal person would lose their current name, and take on a name such as CC. VV and CC are spelled as they are however litteraly spelled V2 C2, pronounced like that too. Now in Japans, L and R are virtually swappable. Even Lelouchs name in Japanese would be spelled Rurushu. Just like CC and VV he too lost his identity. Wouldnt it be weird if VV kept his identity and never aged? yeah, so his old self most likely on record as dead. CC’s old self died a long time ago, and Lelouch died in Zero requiem erasing his existence. You may ask why Charles doesnt have a name with a letter and then a 2. It is because his current existence hasnt been erased. After obtaining the code, he continued to be the Britannian emperor. In the end he was able to let go of the past.
This is in ep 5 i believe, when lelouch and suzaku are dual talking about the world
“The hateful cycle repeats itself again and again.”-suzaku
“the same foolish repatition.”-lelouch
“someone has to stop the cycle”-suzaku
“what a nice thought”-CC
“Of course the one who does should not have to lose everything.”-suzaku
In the end, lelouch did indeed lose just about everything, however “the one who does should not have to lose everything.” He is able to keep his life for one, and is able to not live alone. Together they are isolated from the world. this connects with the “your not alone” and “im not alone” part.
Nunnally’s reason to live is because of suzaku. She knew that he was zero, and became her reason to live on. In ep 17, lelouch was beginning to mature a bit, and realized that he wont be around for nunnally, so he sought to find someone to protect her. That person was suzaku, “Ideally he would provide Nunnally with a reason to live”. Hence Nunally with suzaku in the end. It was a genius plan. In one single step he was able to accomplish all his goals.
>>No, his and CC’s power is related to the World of C: Where do you think the memories that Lelouch sees when he touches CC are from? The memories and dead people (Suzaku’s Dad) are directly in-link with the World of C.
The memories lelouch see when he touches CC come straight from her. The human unconcience, the will of the people, and god, are all the same. With you implying a link such as this between, a person with a code and that of the world of C, you are also implying one of the theories i have killed. CC was talking to lelouch through the world of C. It is not possible without actally being physically there. Note that when you touch someone, or a shocking image is transfered, the code bearer can not see what they are sending. It is unique to each individual for that is their own memory. It brings out there deepest darkes secrets and uses it against them. No world of C required.
Im not the one assuming things here. Ive actually looked at what the anime has to offer. Your assumption of a code link with the world of C, and that CC finished a crane to show seperation are just a few of these. These are ridiculous ideas.
>>And it seems that you missed a big point about Geass in R2 21: There is no “God” nor are there “Gods” nor is there “Godly Power”. The World of C, a.k.a. Jupiter, a.k.a. God, a.k.a. the Human Unconscious is a collection of thoughts of memories of humans. It’s effectively history and the past. In other words, God is not some “being”, it is name given to the history of mankind.
No, it seems you missed a big point. Charles and VV original plan was that of killing the gods. yes kill the GODS. GOD is the human unconcious of the world. According to Charles, if god died, there would only be one human in the world, everything would be united, you could be with the dead if you wanted to be. Godly power is that of the code. I really dont know what jupiter has to do with this though. I do find it quite weird. God isnt a being, its an idea, it is the influence of the world, it is not mankinds history…that you can write on paper.
You only see lelouch is dead because, he got stabbed by a big sword and died in nunnallys arms. That is your theory there. Guess you dont need to fill in the holes huh.
You should really hate me, while geassfan tries to keep the balance, i only believe in him being alive, i do not for one second hesitate about this. I can be biased or as unbiased as i want to be, however it only adds up to him being alive. Sure i saw where you guys say he was dead. He did get stabbed with a sword after all. He looked pretty much dead. But was he? Once the story was complete, all you had to do was go back to the begining and fill in all the details we didnt know then. And, as you see, they all add up to lelouchs survival.
http://anime.merinet.net/geasscalendar08.jpg
check that out, its the geass calender 2008. This came out even before the second season aired. However because of works like these i believe that code geass wasnt un-planned. It was indeed planned out however they had to cram it.
This pic is very symbolic. lelouch and suzaku are in the darkness due to them, walking the path of carnage. lelouch is in a restaining suit tied down with chains while suzaku is tied in cloth. If we go back and listen to SE 11.351, CC says she wears the restraining suit because it suits her well, she is a prisoner of the world, shackled and such. Lelouch is in a restraining suit just as CC is. Immortality? I think so. Suzaku however is tied in cloth, which over time will degrade and release him. This is only temperary for him as he does not have a code, however suffers the same fate as lelouch. lelouch will not break free however suzaku can, eventually. Then add in lelouch and nunnally’s songs,
“If happiness were visible
If I could show it to you, then I’d try to stand at the end of the darkness
Even as far as the furthest points of the earth”
“The seasons move again, the wind blows
And I’ve gotten the feeling someone called my name
In that place where the light dances boisterously,
White feathers simply come fluttering down”
The place where light dance bloisterly is the darkness, where lelouch is. He standing there to show his happiness for nunnally. If you cant comprehend something like this, dont even challenge me. To understand this you have to think alot, which i know you cant do. All you do is critizes me, and defend your single idea, with one worthless scene.
Its all the same, i could just say it was CCxLelouch because they kissed 2 times. Think about it
January 3rd, 2009 at 9:16 am
Merci, Roland Barthes
January 3rd, 2009 at 9:31 am
They have blatantly stated that the kisses are non romantic, it was simply to have a backup in case Lelouch lost his memories.
Also my opinion of Okouchi is that his a good writer who simply can’t handle short termed planning like he was forced to due with R2. Even if Code Geass season 1 was a complete mess I think you should respect him more than to say that his wrong.
As for the Calander Lelouch clearly has a bondage fetish, it just shows that Lelouch has tied up Suzaku to have gay sex with him.
January 3rd, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Tying them both up facing away from each other is a very inefficient way of having bondage sex <..>
January 3rd, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Do not tell me that Lelouch’s outfit doesn’t scream bondage?
What else would Lelouch be about to do in that outfit.
January 3rd, 2009 at 2:16 pm
@ JustAnotherCGFan Says
The Code Geass mangas are completely different from the Code Geass anime, so don’t expect any answers of the anime in his mangas
January 3rd, 2009 at 2:41 pm
@Zongetsu and Charred Knight
LOL I am not trying to be the peacemaker of the dead/alive groups. I have made it completely clear in my previous posts that I firmly believe he’s alive. The only reason why my recent comments have been a bit neutral is because we all know that Charred Knight is in this debate for the following reasons:
1. He has a tremendous respect for Okouchi’s works
2. He always believed Lulu should be dead
3. He views Okouchi’s statements as a confirmation
4. He thinks we should respect Okouchi
So the only way we can possibly convince Charred Knight that Okouchi’s words aren’t the solution is by referring to Okouchi himself. What I mean by that is that Okouchi couldn’t care less about how ambiguous his anime was because the anime wasn’t his true vision of Code Geass and even Charred Knight mentioned that R2 is his worst work. If Okouchi himself dosn’t care about how people view his statements why should you Charred Knight?
I mean it’s obvious that you have more respect for the author than the anime so I don’t see why you are in a debate about the anime which dosn’t even reflect Okouchi’s true vision.
January 3rd, 2009 at 6:08 pm
It is a terrible manga, honestly. Waaay too fast-paced. Not even things like Naruto try to keep each Chapter on the same exact story as the anime. Consider they aren’t that long of chapters, it gives the entire thing a very rushed feel.
January 3rd, 2009 at 6:09 pm
I mean each chapter = 1 episode.
January 3rd, 2009 at 7:01 pm
I could really don’t care about the manga, especially because they are not meant as a replacement.
Okouchi could have Lelouch become Emperor in the manga, and that still wouldn’t change the fact that his dead in the anime.
January 3rd, 2009 at 8:48 pm
hey taniguichi left it in limbo
if u want the fucked up version believe his co workers and if u want a redeemed version
choose taniguichi’s ambigous ending afterall if he cant redo or continue the series, then at least he let the fans ultimatly decide lelouch’s fate
January 3rd, 2009 at 8:53 pm
dude who made this blog dont give up, i stand with the alive camp
i refuse to belive the ppl who screwed the series r2 and ruined the original
January 3rd, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Agreed, if fans want him to be alive, he will be alive.
If not, they might just have killed Code Geass for many people.
January 3rd, 2009 at 11:50 pm
He’s dead.
(Unless the creators change their mind, which is likely to happen. Anyway, someone using his brain can reach the conclusion that he’s dead).
January 4th, 2009 at 12:17 am
@Sunsetterxxx
I think you should go back ans read Zongetsu’s statements because they give hints as to why he’s alive and the fact is that the ending was percieved as an ambiguous end and nothing can be done to change that
January 4th, 2009 at 5:00 am
I would like 2 say a few things about C2, 1st of all I was watching an anime called yugioh 5ds (no it’s not as gay as the other 2 series but only if u dont watch the 4Kids version) & I found 1 of the main female character Aki Izayoi to be kinda like C2. The funny thing about both of them is that they refer to themselves as “witches”. Anyways Aki’s story is that she was abandoned by her parents & she was alone 4 a while until she met a man named Divine who saved her from her loneliness. C2 started out as an orphan then she met the nun who saved her life (which is similar 2 Aki’s story).
We all know C2 lost the nun & then she eventually met Lulu who changed her life 4ever, but now lets go back to Aki’s story. Despite the fact that Divine saved Aki from her loneliness she was still sad b/c all the ppl around her still hated her (which is kinda like C2 in those flashback scenes where she was abused) however she dueled Yusei Fudo & realized deep inside that he is the only 1 other than Divine who can save her.
To rap the Aki story up, she becomes traumatized when Divine died & now the only 1 who she can trust is Yusei. So my point is dont u think C2 would at least b somewhat traumatized if Lulu actually died? It really dosnt make any logical sence 4 her 2b happy. Like Aki, C2 also had a terrible past & the difference between her and Aki is that C2 wanted 2 die b/c of her terrible experiences. But the point is that Lulu was C2’s light in the tunnel in the end he literally became her only reason 4 living & as for Aki’s part of the story, it hasn’t ended yet b/c the anime is still continuing in Japan, I highly reccomend it.
Btw 4 those who actually do watch the show, I am not a AkixDivine shipper
January 4th, 2009 at 7:16 am
Bacon, while Taniguchi is the director, Okouchi is the person who came up with the story, also the guide backs up Okouchi. In fact what your referring to is simply a misunderstanding
What Taniguchi meant is that its up to the audience to figure out if the ending was good or bad, not that Lelouch was alive. Okouchi has flat out stated that Lelouch felt that the only way to redeem himself was to kill himself, and deprive himself of the new peaceful world.
January 4th, 2009 at 8:57 am
>>CC did not want to be more than human, when she made the contract, she only wanted to live a normal life. The code was forced upon her by the nun. “Sorry, you were fooled! *shocked face*”
…I said the Code represents wanting to be more than human.
>>Then CC did indeed suffer wounds. A code regenerates you body to the state it was when it first activated, leave behind scars and such. When you saw CC naked, did you see a scar under her left breast? No…during the struggle, she mustve gotten it for the code does not regenerate that area. As for the nun…she obviously didnt bleed anywhere besides the back of her head…it wasnt her blood on CC.
So CC was also poking out her eyes and her mouth? ’cause blood was near her eyes and her mouth. Gee.
>>And, you are talking about something entirely different. Geass has no relation to Chinese empires. Besides, that is in our reality. In code geass, china=not as amazing as you think it is.
No, it’s completely relevant: It’s proof that people throughout history want immortality. A Code represents a power that you think you *want*.
>>Cranes mean nothing to her. It was merely a past time with Nunnally. For instance, in sound episode 11.351, she tells nunnally, next time, teach more origami okay? Indeed she was seen folding cranes with nunnally in this episode, however from the same episode, you learn that her cranes suck. It was misfolded and wabbled when you set it down. This is nothing near the quality of Nunnallys crane.
It’s called a “symbol”, and it symbolizes the beginning and end her time with Lelouch.
>>Please prove you know that she finished it.
Please prove that you know it’s Lelouch’s crane.
>>Why would she put a random crane in front of a cart, next to the driver is my next question. Why why why? She wouldnt duh…It would serve much better as a memior of Nunnally, remember he lost her? as well as everything else in his life? He even lost his name.
So let’s say she put the crane somewhere else. Why would she put a “random” crane near the back of the cart, then? Maybe she was just randomly putting it somewhere? Seriously, the placement of a crane is proof that Lelouch is alive? Give me a fucking break.
>>The memories lelouch see when he touches CC come straight from her. The human unconcience, the will of the people, and god, are all the same.
Oh, so where does the image of Suzaku’s dad come from? Hurrrr. It’s a direct link to the World of C/Human WTFever/God.
>>Im not the one assuming things here. Ive actually looked at what the anime has to offer. Your assumption of a code link with the world of C, and that CC finished a crane to show seperation are just a few of these. These are ridiculous ideas.
No, you are assuming things here. Of anyone who is posting here, the one who has the most bullshit and assumptions coming from their mouth is you, and I already posted a list of everythign that you’re assuming in order to make this “work”, or do you not understand that a theory built entirely on assumptions is flawed? If you want to go write fanfic, then go write fanfic and quit arguing like as if its what really happened. You’ve already proven your awesome intelligence with “surpass means the same thing as succeed” and “I don’t remember that line” and constantly misquoting a line from a fansub and also fabricating the existence of a fansub then using that line as part of your argument. Which should really just show how pathetic you are since you acutally fabricated a “source”.
The power of a Code is linked with the World of C. Why the fuck do you think Charles was able to use his and CC’s Codes inside the World of C?
>>No, it seems you missed a big point. Charles and VV original plan was that of killing the gods. yes kill the GODS. GOD is the human unconcious of the world. According to Charles, if god died, there would only be one human in the world, everything would be united, you could be with the dead if you wanted to be. Godly power is that of the code. I really dont know what jupiter has to do with this though. I do find it quite weird. God isnt a being, its an idea, it is the influence of the world, it is not mankinds history…that you can write on paper.
Japanese is a context-less language. No one knew it was a singular God until later.
God is mankind’s history. Go re-watch R2 21 instead of babbling incorrect things at me. Jupiter is God and God is the human unconsciousness.
Look, it’s really easy to understand how this works: There are Thought Elevators which unite thoughts of people around the world. The Sword of Akasha was raising the Thought Elevators forcefully into God/Jupiter to create a whole being.
>>You only see lelouch is dead because, he got stabbed by a big sword and died in nunnallys arms. That is your theory there. Guess you dont need to fill in the holes huh.
That isn’t a theory, it’s what happened in the anime.
>>check that out, its the geass calender 2008. This came out even before the second season aired. However because of works like these i believe that code geass wasnt un-planned. It was indeed planned out however they had to cram it.
OH WOW, A CALENDER. Hey there’s a picture of Schneizel, VV, Guilford, Suzaku and Lelouch all hanging out in suits. THAT MUST BE CANON PROOF OF SOMETHING CUT OUT IN GEASS TOO!
January 4th, 2009 at 10:33 am
World of C is a device build by aliens. To monitor and observe humans by transferring their memories back to the World of C for analyses of their ongoing project.
The goal of the project was to breed an army of immortal warriors, by forcing the Code onto Mayas during the first encounter they hoped that humans will breed and multiply the amount of Codes on earth. Then alien warriors who posses the power of Geass can travel to earth to take the code from a human being. Thus they would have a Code and Geass, and be the perfect immortal warriors.
But humans greed got a better of them and project never succeeded to breed enough codes, the pressing war with other species didnt let them have enough time to turn down their facilities on earth. Later on that particular race got extincted.
Charles fond reminds of their technology, but misunderstood its purpose.
How that of a theory?
January 4th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
>>A Code represents a power that you think you *want*.
CC did not want to be immortal, yet she still has the code
>>So CC was also poking out her eyes and her mouth? ’cause blood was near her eyes and her mouth. Gee.
For one, you cannot poke out your mouth. And blood does indeed flow downwards. Remember? theres this thing called gravity that does that. She couldve had a head wound which bled and flowed downwards.
>>No, it’s completely relevant: It’s proof that people throughout history want immortality. A Code represents a power that you think you *want*.
Now that does not make sense. Its true people did want to be immortal, but that was only some people. Not everyone wants to be immortal. For instance, if i had a code, immortal would be the last thing i want. Do you really think i would like to see everyone around me disappear? Geass would be more like you last statement, a power you think you want. Geass gives the user power to achieve their wish, however it is also their undoing. It only brings them temporary happiness. For instance CC geass gave her the power to make everyone love her, that was something she thought she wanted, however there was too much love for her and she couldnt tell what was real or not. So in the end, she was isolated by it. You make no sense….
>>It’s called a “symbol”, and it symbolizes the beginning and end her time with Lelouch.
It is called a symbol however it does not symbolize what you think it does. It is clearly a representation of nunnally, and of happiness. Going to the Nightmare of Nunnally manga, you learn what kind of brother lelouch is. Even though it exists in an alternate universe, it has the same principles until their involvement with geass. Lelouch is shown holding a crane and thinking of nunnally. Yes, that is one point. Then in, i think, ep 3, or maybe 4, lelouch is talking to nunnally, and nunnally tells him how 1000 cranes can grant someones wish. Im pretty sure they wouldnt make a thousand cranes to do this, one would be good enough. However, the pink crane, which you see a ton in the anime, is shown with nunnally or with lelouch. For example, in r2 ep 6, this crane is seen surrounded by white chess pieces on a chess board. Which is then surrounded by black chess pieces. The white ones represent britannina, and the black, the black knights. And then before fleia is blown up, you can see the crane with nunnally. In the opening, nunnally is also seen with the crane, letting it fly. The rainbow it leaves behind can be a symbol of happiness, also having it fly to the world of C. Bringing happiness to those with otherly powers? such as CC? You know that items can be used to represent people. Another example of this is when Vilette shot ougi in the first season, there was two cranes facing each other, then after the shot, one fell down. Now to lelouch. He is the black king. Multiple times he is seen with it. Some of these times are when he owns schiezel, when he “hits” CC, and when he has a private talk with her in his room. In these times, he is holding it, looks as if it is injured having been covered in CC blood, and is alone, isolated. No way a crane would equal something as complex as her time beginning and her time ending with lelouch. That is something you just made up to “fill” into your theory. Its not even near her to begin with, note her bag is, and, once again, it has no meaning to her.
>>Please prove that you know it’s Lelouch’s crane.
Wtf kind of answer is that? Prove that it means her time with lelouch beginning and ending.
>>So let’s say she put the crane somewhere else. Why would she put a “random” crane near the back of the cart, then? Maybe she was just randomly putting it somewhere? Seriously, the placement of a crane is proof that Lelouch is alive? Give me a fucking break.
The crane wouldnt be anywhere else, the crane is nunnally’s, and its lelouchs memoir of her. And its not the back of the cart, its the front of the cart near the driver. And its not really the placement of the crane, it is the crane itself. The position is just merely another element to add after the crane. If there was no crane who would care? But there is, and its near the driver. You keep on assuming on maybes, but would she just randomly place, according to you, randomly? No sense
>>Oh, so where does the image of Suzaku’s dad come from? Hurrrr. It’s a direct link to the World of C/Human WTFever/God.
The image comes straight from suzaku’s mind hurrr…thats why CC couldnt see the image…hurr…thats why its unique to every induvidual hurrr…Its only a shocking image to them. If it was connected to the world of C, why didnt the image show a whole bunch of people being chopped up or killed? after all, suzaku despised the killing innocent people. But no, it showed his father, whom he had killed.
>>No, you are assuming things here. Of anyone who is posting here, the one who has the most bullshit and assumptions coming from their mouth is you, and I already posted a list of everythign that you’re assuming in order to make this “work”, or do you not understand that a theory built entirely on assumptions is flawed? If you want to go write fanfic, then go write fanfic and quit arguing like as if its what really happened. You’ve already proven your awesome intelligence with “surpass means the same thing as succeed” and “I don’t remember that line” and constantly misquoting a line from a fansub and also fabricating the existence of a fansub then using that line as part of your argument. Which should really just show how pathetic you are since you acutally fabricated a “source”.
Umm, you are the one fabricating stuff. Oh, the crane definately belongs to CC because i saw her make one. The reason why its there is because lelouch is dead. I saw him stabbed with a sword. CC is happy that he is dead. She isnt alone, she has his memory. Blah blah blah, bullshit like that.
>>God is mankind’s history. Go re-watch R2 21 instead of babbling incorrect things at me. Jupiter is God and God is the human unconsciousness.
This doesnt make sense. God is mankinds history, so mankinds history must be jupiter, and then jupiter is humans unconciouness….wtf? You contradict yourself more and more
January 4th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Wow…and i just found out that it wasnt ep 17 where charles said it was okay for scheizel to challenge him. It was ep 18. Wow, you got owned…
Thanks for the false info miasmacloud =]
January 5th, 2009 at 12:49 am
When Nunnally touched Lelouch’s hand she didn’t enter shock state or saw trippy stuff like Lelouch and Suzaku did when they touched C.C. Nunnally’s experience was clearly different.
Plus, nobody can argue about the fact that when Nunnally “saw Lelouch’s memories due to code”, Lelouch was still alive so, according to that bs theory, Lelouch was not a code person. This lessens the “code activation” theory’s credibility. And that “he could use Geass ’cause the code he had wasn’t the one of the person who gave him the Geass, so he achieved Code Geass” theory, don’t bring it up ’cause it’s entirely fanmade.
So it’s either that or the writers are stupid and this is a huge plot hole.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:03 am
Well, she did somewhat. If you rewatch you, you notice her eyes get bigger, like whoa…it doesnt freak out the person who was touching the code person, it merely shows them something from the code persons memory. Suzaku passed out because he was “shocked” to experience the same thing again, note the first time, he went nuts. This experience was no different.
Normal people do not somehow create their own supernatural powers.
Lelouch was dying. His code activated to start healing his wound. See how the emperor shot himself and got up like 30 seconds later? CC too probably didnt die immediately. Look at all her blood on the ground, thats alot of blood to lose. So, perhaps it activates upon a fatal would which leads to death or if the user dies immediately then.
Throughout the entire series we only see contracts completed where as the one who bestowed power is killed by the one who had the power. But lelouch is different, he killed a person with a code that he was not contracted to. Not that Charles couild take a code he was not contracted to either. SO then what would happen?
Code geass is a possiblitliy. For one, he does not have CC immortality. Which means he still has his geass. and two, he killed charles, taking his code.
You have tothink about this. Ntm the second season was conviencently named R2, just like C2 V2.
January 5th, 2009 at 3:39 am
@Sunsetterxxx
The only reason why these so called “bs theories” exist is because the anime wasn’t clear by any means. If you are to think in terms of logic: Mao can’t survive after getting shot 10000 times, Jeremiah can’t survive being destroyed so many times, Guilford, Nunnaly and Sayoko can’t survive the FLEYA bomb. So the point is that there are many illogical moments in Code Geass such as that and the only way you can actually make some sence out of the Lulu dying part is by thinking.
Besides, about the part where Nunnaly seeing Lulu’s memories before he dies, it’s obvious that she actually sees them otherwise there would be no way for her to know that Lulu’s true plan. If that isn’t enough, keep in mind she’s with Zero at the end so I think it’s obvious that she knows it’s Suzaku inside the mask and she wouldn’t have known that if she didn’t see his memories. Also, if you look at the flashback of the Zero Requiem promise, Lulu never told Suzaku to be beside Nunnaly, he told Suzaku to serve the people for eternity. As for Nunnaly being happy in the epilogue scene, it’s because Zero/Suzaku is still with her and she even once said she adores Suzaku (in season 1 ep 21, it implies she might have feelings for him) so if you consider that, it completely correlates with Nunnaly seeing Lulu’s memories which is proof tha the has the code.
January 5th, 2009 at 4:47 am
Well, when Lelouch got Geass from C.C. it was like this.
She getting shot, he crunching down to her and wanting to grab her but stops. Then she grabs him.
Nobody think that she was like shot in the head? Shot dead in her head? Dunno
In last episode, we see that Nunnally after seeing flashback says she loves him, then starts crying and scene zooms out and we hear him saying “I destroy worlds” and very fast flashback of all his memories. Nor do they have any general order.
From that I just wish to say that Nunnally is damn good at reading other people memories. Just as good as Mao was to read them.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:01 am
@Geassfan101
I know Nunnally figured it all out when she touched his hand, what I’m saying is that in those situations when people had that type of contact with code persons, lots of trippy images were shown, some of theme geass-like sequences, and people was left in some sort of shock during the contact.
When Nunnally touched his hand it was like she “saw” it all instantly and the images were shown smoothly, and that’s clearly different from what had happen with C.C. in several occasions prior that.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:19 am
It been pointed out before:
1) If Sunrise had it animated as normal Code interaction, there wont be any one left believing he dont have the code. There wont be any of this kind of discussion and Code Geass would travel into the forgotten real faster then a bullet. Yet, we have all kind of people still discussing, keeping the popularity somehow alive.
2) We never actually had a chance to witness such kind of situation where a Code person got shot and another human touches him/her.
In all other situations the Code person was using/activating code for by himself/herself.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:46 am
However to add to Zings last statement. When nunnally was touching his hand, she was in like a state, of “high energy”. After all, she was activating the code at the moment allowing her to send shocking images to suzaku.
If lelouchs code was activated and was healing his fatal wound, wouldnt this be the same case? At the moment they are touched, the toucher is allowed to see, memories. Note, CC said, “im so open..” or something like that.
It is also seen when you use the code, it lights up. This is however obscured by lelouchs own blood in the final scene. I beleive he may have done that purposly, for one, he did not want the world to know about geass, and two, he did not want them to wonder about it. Like, omg, whats that on his hand? Hmm…that brings up another point. From what we can see with CC, the code stays in the same spot as the one before you. Forehead forehead, but, im not sure where VV’s is, probably on his right hand, just like charles.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:58 am
>> into the forgotten real faster then a bullet
I was intending to type “realm” but missed on m and ended with real
sorry.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:11 am
haha i messed up to, it was meant for lelouch to be in a “high energy” after the code activated, not nunnally.
>>>When nunnally was touching his hand, he was in like a state, of “high energy”. (this is right)
January 5th, 2009 at 8:20 am
>”If lelouchs code was activated and was healing his fatal wound”
>”lelouchs code was activated and was healing”
>”healing”
lol wut?
Excuse me but when Nunnally touched Lelouch’s hand he wasn’t healing, like, at all! He was dying.
If the code activation bs was true, healing would have to start after death anyway.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:43 am
Think about this, when you get cut, your body doesnt heal it right away, its in the progress of doing so. Also, the code returns your body to the state it was before it activated.
For instance, CC had a scar under her left breast. If the code was almighty it wouldve healed it, but it happened before the code activated. So it pretty much preserved her body the way it was before her first death. I could compare it DNA, it takes an “image” of your body, and upon destruction repairs it to its original state. Thats what the code was doing. After suffering that fatal wound, the code activated, and began to restore lelouchs body. I believe it to be a defensive measure because, what if the code person was blown to bits the first time it activated? dead…and thats not possible.
Comparing this to when Charles go his code, you can presume that you need to die in order to have the insignia of the code. After all, after charles died, he got up and took off his glove and was like, look! my hand! (code on his hand) Note that regeneration takes a while depending on the wound, After getting shot in the head, we dont see CC for 3 episodes. While after getting shot in the heart, they (CC and Charles) get up pretty much right away. Im pretty sure healing a huge sword wound would take up more time than that of a bullet wound.
Ill say it again if you didnt get it the first time. The code is almost like your normal bodily functions, but will work even if your heart stops. Just like your body, the moment you suffer a wound, it begins to heal, however with the code it is accelerated. Keeping a blueprint of your body, it allows it to restore itself to its original state. Yeah, CC got torched, iron maidened, guillotined and still has her godlike form, all thanks to the code.
anymore questions? just ask
January 5th, 2009 at 8:48 am
Do you seriously need to be picky about everything?
What does it helps if we change the healing to dying? He still will be alive and you still will not have point in your comment.
C.C. got shot in head in first season and was out for 5 episodes doing what ever she likes.
Then she got stabbed by a piece of rock when Suzaku went berserk and was out for some time.
In second season she got shot in heart but stood up a few minutes later.
How ever, I just going to contradict my previous statement about
>>”We never actually had a chance to witness such kind of situation where a Code person got shot and another human touches him/her.”
In first episode of second season Lelouch cachet C.C. before she fell on the ground when she got shot in the heart. No images come from here at that time? Correct?
That why we can assume that it only happened due to first time being used in Lelouch case, when he first got a fatal wound. But allow me to do something more vague and assume something else.
What if Lelouch wanted Nunnally to see his memories? Because he wanted to be redeemed at least in the ayes of his beloved sister?
Or maybe because if she would not have seen it, she would keep on hating Lelouch for being Zero and doing this horrible things and in addition hate Suzaku for killing Lelouch. In the end, she might end up being all emo.
Now did anything change at all?
January 5th, 2009 at 9:14 am
@zongetsu
I know how the code “restores” people, I saw the show and payed the needed attention.
It’s just that when I brought up the fact that when Lelouch “passed his memories to Nunnally due to code” he wasn’t dead yet which according to “code activation” theory wouldn’t be impossible ’cause Lelouch hadn’t died therefore his code had not been activated therefore he wasn’t a code person yet, you or the other guy said something like the code was already healing him (which sounds kind of contradictory ’cause according to the theory, the code shouldn’t be working yet). I don’t know what u understand by the word healing but I’ve been taught that healing means getting better and when Nunnally touched his hand Lelouch wasn’t getting better, he was getting worse ’til he finally died. If the code activation theory was true, healing should start after death, amirite?
So, what I mean is that in point P of the “Lelouch vitality function” F where Nunnally touching Lelouch’s hand takes place, the derivative is negative; the function is decreasing towards the critical point (death): Lelouch is dying.
Supposing Lelouch has a code, the critical point P would be more like an inflection point in the function F ’cause from that point with derivative 0 on, the derivative would be positive; the function would be increasing: Lelouch would be healing.
According to the code activation theory, before someone who received a code becomes a code person, he/she must die. Now you are saying that the code was healing Lelouch before he died.
If fanbase has made any updates to its BS theory please let me know.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:45 am
According to mankind theory God do exist, but it have not been proved. Yet
As for that part, I already mentioned it before in my previous post. But who would like to read the whole wall of text? That take like half your life span away rofl.
Look at the code as if it was insurance, once you insured your body it is always there. Always active, just waiting for something bad to happen. But you see no result until something bad happening to you, correct?
So when Lelouch got his wound the code become active due to actually being needed and you can see the result of its activation.
As for dying… Are you implying that you are retard? The whole thing was based on him dying, that was the fucking plan dude! Of course it would have failed if he did something like THIS http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/clubs/3/67127.jpg !!!
So he had to die and he put on the fucking act of dying or what ever, he did his part at least. Too bad he will never get an Oscar…
January 5th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
You know, just because i support Lelouch being alive does not mean i agree with every single thing they dish out. I believe in what i believe because it is what ive found to be true.
For one, i dont support that the code activates after death. I think that once you recieve the code, it manifest in your body. Thats how it retains your body in its original form. However with this, there are a few uncertainties. For one, we have never seen anyone who has lived longer than like 5 minutes without dying after receiving the code. CC died, i believe due to blood loss, and Charles shot himself. Lelouch lived several months afterwards. With that being said, we do not know what powers the user may have. But it is clear that you must die in order to bring forth the Geass insignia on your body.
My theory is just as ZingFreelancers. Once the code is recieved, it manifest in your body lying dormant. However, once you are one the verge of death, or have already died, it activates and begins on the process of restoring your body. The healing speed probably does not defeat that of blood loss or a bullet wound. When lelouch got stabbed, he probably punchered his lungs, and cut several arteries, thus suffocating to death while bleeding to death. The code doesnt heal at light speed, it does indeed take time. Look at Charles, he shot himself, and got up like 5 minutes later, the sword was MUCH bigger than the bullet. Once recovered for the first time, the code also comes forth as a geass insignia.
Yes…im pretty sure that if you got your arm chopped off, the code would not heal it in 10 seconds, you would bleed to death first, and then while youre dead, have it be regrown. Wouldnt that be weird walking around one armed with the other growing back? Once it is regrown would you regain conscious.
Yes, its simple dont make it complex like that one sentence. The question is only would you die faster or heal faster? Easy, die faster, thats why CC, VV, and charles can all bleed.
>>>So, what I mean is that in point P of the “Lelouch vitality function” F where Nunnally touching Lelouch’s hand takes place, the derivative is negative; the function is decreasing towards the critical point (death): Lelouch is dying.
Supposing Lelouch has a code, the critical point P would be more like an inflection point in the function F ’cause from that point with derivative 0 on, the derivative would be positive; the function would be increasing: Lelouch would be healing.
sure…you couldve just said that its not true because when nunnally was touching him he wasnt getting better and then, if he had a code, he would be getting better…dont try to user fancy talk here…
January 5th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
@Sunsetterxxx
It looks like Zongetsu and Zing have already stated the main points about the code but I just
wanted to say something about the so called “bs theories” about him being alive. First of all, if you think our theories are bs wait till you see the Lulu alive supporters on youtube. As Zongetsu mentioned, we don’t agree with every alive theory the other Lulu alive groups dish out.
Here are some examples of the true bs theories that the Lulu alive group on youtube says.
1.”i think that paper bird is lelouch…o.o;”
2.”Naw man, you see that castle C.C’s got her eye’s on at the very end there. Lelouch is gonna kick some ass with his Code Geass, storm the castle as a one man army and take over.”
3. “you guys are dumb he is alive hes the guy driving the cart”
The difference between their statements and ours is that we always use evidence/quotes from the anime to back up our statements.
However, the Lulu dead group has come up with tons of bs theories as well. For instance they said, Nunnaly having a magical ability to see through people’s hearts, C.C. is talking to Lulu’s spirit in the end, and C.C. is happy because of the memories of Lulu. The reason why I say those statements are bs is because there is absolutely no evidence in the anime to prove any of them, therefore those statements are no better than the 3 examples I gave in the statements above.
My point is that both the dead groups and the alive groups have made “bs theories” here and there so criticizing the alive group won’t benefit you at all. However, the alive group that Zongetsu, Zingfreelancer, and I are in are different from all the other alive groups because we present evidence from the anime to back up all of the “bs theories” and at the end of the day you can chose whether or not to agree with us. I understand that some of the evidence may be hard to comprehend but if you actually reflect deeply on the anime like we do, then the explanations will make perfect sence.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:32 am
>”However, the Lulu dead group has come up with tons of bs theories as well. For instance they said, Nunnaly having a magical ability to see through people’s hearts, C.C. is talking to Lulu’s spirit in the end, and C.C. is happy because of the memories of Lulu. The reason why I say those statements are bs is because there is absolutely no evidence in the anime to prove any of them, therefore those statements are no better than the 3 examples I gave in the statements above.”
Nunnally’s ability was hinted at least twice during the show, one time Suzaku and the other time with that woman, Romeyer or w/e, so I wasn’t surprised when the guy from the staff explained the memories’ sighting that way.
About C.C. “talking to Lelouch spirit”, people talking alone or talking to people that are not there even if the other person won’t listen is not uncommon in fiction. Some people go as far as saying C.C. veered her face towards the cart driver when she pronounced Lelouch’s name when what she really did was rise her sight higher.
About C.C. being happy… I really don’t know about this one. If Lelouch died I can’t think of any reason why she would be happy. But, the other way around, I can’t say she was happy ’cause Lelouch survived and they would be together forever.
I think the key in all this code related discussion is figuring out wtf happened when the nun transferred the code to C.C. The nun killed herself, but why was C.C. bleeding and why that wound left that mark, etc.
I would also like to know if V.V. transferred the code to Charles the moment they met at the gates of the sword of Akasha at the Geass Directorate headquarters or if they did the transaction earlier.
January 6th, 2009 at 4:17 am
>>Nunnally’s ability was hinted at least twice during the show, one time Suzaku and the other time with that woman, Romeyer or w/e, so I wasn’t surprised when the guy from the staff explained the memories’ sighting that way.
However you only use those has hints because of what geass net says. It has also been shown in the show that she has godlike senses. Her senses were even better than sayako ninjas. This happens in ep 3, she can tell lelouch is coming way before we see it, and even before sayako knows. Then in that one episodes, were arthur steals zeros mask, she is able to tell how the cat meows, and that it has an injured leg, because its steps were out of sync. So, he she touches someones hand, im pretty sure she can tell, because when people lie, they most often have an increased heart rate, or tremble. As you can see, Nunnally knew ms Romeyer was an ass, and knew she was lying. As for suzaku, we could see him trembling, he was like “i cant face nunally…”or something like that. Another place were she couldnt tell who was lying was when lelouch put on a brilliant mask against her, saying he wanted the world for himself not her…he was trembling like hell, but was able to maintain his steady voice.
>>About C.C. “talking to Lelouch spirit”, people talking alone or talking to people that are not there even if the other person won’t listen is not uncommon in fiction. Some people go as far as saying C.C. veered her face towards the cart driver when she pronounced Lelouch’s name when what she really did was rise her sight higher.
Well, to be honest, she seriously did move her head, and eyes up just a little as she said lelouch. However, she would not be this happy in the end if he was dead, as ill say in the next statement.
>>About C.C. being happy… I really don’t know about this one. If Lelouch died I can’t think of any reason why she would be happy. But, the other way around, I can’t say she was happy ’cause Lelouch survived and they would be together forever.
Yes, you see the point now dont you? Why dont you just come join us, we make much more sense than those of the dead lulu group. Unlike them, we have a more complete story while those such as miasmaclouds state that they dont need to explain everything, he is dead because he got stabbed with a sword. Your last sentence is why she is happy. Did you ever find her reason for having an accomplance? It was because she was hurting on the inside, she had never had one before. One that would help her and introduce her to people.
Or…you can just watch it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y2YD4FesLY&feature=channel_page
Her true wish is “to be loved”. Lelouch learned that in r2 ep 15. And since then, i believe has been slowly, but surely been falling for her. After all, he was now her reason to live, she chose him, over charles, who would grant her wish of dying. If he was to die, I believe she would just become that lonely girl once again, locking away all emotions.
In ep 24 i believe, they have that one, almost kiss scene. It however is interupted by Kallen And then during her and Kallens battle they have a little dialouge.
“you fight for neither country nor revenge. You dont even have an ounce of ambition in you! People who dont have a reason to fight…should get lost!”-Kallen
“I have a reason now…my promise…”-CC
“Does that mean you love lelouch?”-Kallen
*catches CC off guard*
“Umm..Im not sure…but i do want to end the accumulation of this experience”
“You speak like a human now.”-Kallen
If you wanna watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvK4lM51-cc
CC totally got caught off guard by Kallens statment. Yeah, and then when CC said she wanted to end this experience, it wasnt her life she wanted to end, it was the war, fights, all of the above. Thats why Kallen said, you sound like a human now. She does love lelouch, she just wants the fighting to stop.
>>I think the key in all this code related discussion is figuring out wtf happened when the nun transferred the code to C.C. The nun killed herself, but why was C.C. bleeding and why that wound left that mark, etc.
I dont think this is key. The nun most likely had some fun cutting up CC before she transferred the code herself. She was fed up with the world, maybe she wanted to have some “fun” but she didnt want to kill her, after all, she needed her to transfer the code. That is probably why she is covered in blood.
>>I would also like to know if V.V. transferred the code to Charles the moment they met at the gates of the sword of Akasha at the Geass Directorate headquarters or if they did the transaction earlier.
They did it at the gate. VV still had his code, and if i remember correctly, charles appeared and was like, you lied again VV. Then he mustve taken his code, because for one, CC was there, he knew it because lelouch was there. And two, he was to complete his and his brothers pact of creating a world without lies. VV was a liar so it was only fair that he died too. Then it wouldve lead up to Charles somehow getting two codes, but lelouch stopped CC. End of story.
January 6th, 2009 at 5:59 am
this video sums up most points about lulu being alive. is always good to see video proofs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PINKHQkldu4
January 6th, 2009 at 7:46 am
Yeah, okay vid, not totally what i believe, but still good. Ill probably work to make a vid too, but i know it would definately longer than 4 minutes, it would probably be 30 minutes or longer…its a complex story after all.
January 6th, 2009 at 10:18 am
This was removed for some reason….
>>Nunnally’s ability was hinted at least twice during the show, one time Suzaku and the other time with that woman, Romeyer or w/e, so I wasn’t surprised when the guy from the staff explained the memories’ sighting that way.
However you only use those has hints because of what geass net says. It has also been shown in the show that she has godlike senses. Her senses were even better than sayako ninjas. This happens in ep 3, she can tell lelouch is coming way before we see it, and even before sayako knows. Then in that one episodes, were arthur steals zeros mask, she is able to tell how the cat meows, and that it has an injured leg, because its steps were out of sync. So, he she touches someones hand, im pretty sure she can tell, because when people lie, they most often have an increased heart rate, or tremble. As you can see, Nunnally knew ms Romeyer was an ass, and knew she was lying. As for suzaku, we could see him trembling, he was like “i cant face nunally…”or something like that. Another place were she couldnt tell who was lying was when lelouch put on a brilliant mask against her, saying he wanted the world for himself not her…he was trembling like hell, but was able to maintain his steady voice.
>>About C.C. “talking to Lelouch spirit”, people talking alone or talking to people that are not there even if the other person won’t listen is not uncommon in fiction. Some people go as far as saying C.C. veered her face towards the cart driver when she pronounced Lelouch’s name when what she really did was rise her sight higher.
Well, to be honest, she seriously did move her head, and eyes up just a little as she said lelouch. However, she would not be this happy in the end if he was dead, as ill say in the next statement.
>>About C.C. being happy… I really don’t know about this one. If Lelouch died I can’t think of any reason why she would be happy. But, the other way around, I can’t say she was happy ’cause Lelouch survived and they would be together forever.
Yes, you see the point now dont you? Why dont you just come join us, we make much more sense than those of the dead lulu group. Unlike them, we have a more complete story while those such as miasmaclouds state that they dont need to explain everything, he is dead because he got stabbed with a sword. Your last sentence is why she is happy. Did you ever find her reason for having an accomplance? It was because she was hurting on the inside, she had never had one before. One that would help her and introduce her to people.
Or…you can just watch it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y2YD4FesLY&feature=channel_page
Her true wish is “to be loved”. Lelouch learned that in r2 ep 15. And since then, i believe has been slowly, but surely been falling for her. After all, he was now her reason to live, she chose him, over charles, who would grant her wish of dying. If he was to die, I believe she would just become that lonely girl once again, locking away all emotions.
In ep 24 i believe, they have that one, almost kiss scene. It however is interupted by Kallen And then during her and Kallens battle they have a little dialouge.
“you fight for neither country nor revenge. You dont even have an ounce of ambition in you! People who dont have a reason to fight…should get lost!”-Kallen
“I have a reason now…my promise…”-CC
“Does that mean you love lelouch?”-Kallen
*catches CC off guard*
“Umm..Im not sure…but i do want to end the accumulation of this experience”
“You speak like a human now.”-Kallen
If you wanna watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvK4lM51-cc
CC totally got caught off guard by Kallens statment. Yeah, and then when CC said she wanted to end this experience, it wasnt her life she wanted to end, it was the war, fights, all of the above. Thats why Kallen said, you sound like a human now. She does love lelouch, she just wants the fighting to stop.
>>I think the key in all this code related discussion is figuring out wtf happened when the nun transferred the code to C.C. The nun killed herself, but why was C.C. bleeding and why that wound left that mark, etc.
I dont think this is key. The nun most likely had some fun cutting up CC before she transferred the code herself. She was fed up with the world, maybe she wanted to have some “fun” but she didnt want to kill her, after all, she needed her to transfer the code. That is probably why she is covered in blood.
>>I would also like to know if V.V. transferred the code to Charles the moment they met at the gates of the sword of Akasha at the Geass Directorate headquarters or if they did the transaction earlier.
They did it at the gate. VV still had his code, and if i remember correctly, charles appeared and was like, you lied again VV. Then he mustve taken his code, because for one, CC was there, he knew it because lelouch was there. And two, he was to complete his and his brothers pact of creating a world without lies. VV was a liar so it was only fair that he died too. Then it wouldve lead up to Charles somehow getting two codes, but lelouch stopped CC. End of story.
January 6th, 2009 at 10:19 am
nvm….why is it awaiting moderation?
January 6th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
@Sunsetterxxx
The Romayer scene dosn’t show that Nunnaly can see through people’s hearts, it shows that she can tell when people are lying by reading their pulse. There is a huge difference between seeing through lies and seeing through people’s hearts. However, when she touched Lulu’s hand not only was she able to see through his lies, but she was also able to realize that the whole thing was planned right from the beginning. So it would only make sence if Nunnaly actually saw the memories otherwise there would be no way she could know all his plans just by touching his hand. That even goes against the rumors of her seeing through people’s hearts.
Also, why is she with Suzaku/Zero in the end? That’s most likely because she knows Zero is actually Suzaku because Lulu’s memories have shown it to her. That would explain why she seems so cheerful in the very end.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
It is hinted in the first season that she has feelings for suzaku. And do you really think that lelouch would want her to think of him as evil? She did after all say that she he was the worst in ep 24. Now she knows the truth
Its not here, once again…my post…
January 6th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Nunnaly knowing the truth was not a part of Lelouch’s plans, even if you believe that Okouchi is lying about Lelouch being dead, you would have to ignore all of Lelouch’s characterization to believe that he purposely faked his own death without telling anyone other than Jeremiah since Suzaku didn’t know, Nunnaly didn’t know, Kallen didn’t know, and because of C.C’s tears she didn’t know.
I have seen suggestions that he ordered Sayoko to take the actual attack and die for him which really shows me the person wasn’t paying attention to any scene that doesn’t involve Lelouch doing something awesome.
As for showing proof our side has shown you interviews, and the guide stating that Lelouch is dead, we have shown you that artistically Lelouch being alive would only work to validate a shipping couple and would give the series a bad message.
January 6th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Bad message? Shipping couple?
Smoking socks?
All goes into same category.
Seeing through peoples heart and absorbing peoples memories is two different things. As for knowing or not knowing, who gives the fuck?
The fact that they agreed to this plan in World of C is the fact, its not like he made up that plan before he went to world of C, but after. After he meet emperor and defeated him and got the code. Why after? Because after he got the code he realized that he can do such thing and get away with it.
I write some more when I come back from work, but if I made a mistake somewhere, please point it out.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:45 am
I’m also a supporter of Lelouch being alive, and trust me, there are people who give me headaches about it, LOL.
Here’s an article you should be interested in if you’re a fan of Code Geass.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-12-25/sunrise-indicates-possibility-of-more-code-geass
It doesn’t say how there’s gonna be more, but it’s great news to me.
January 7th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Saw that post a long…long time ago…
Nunnaly knowing the truth was not a part of Lelouch’s plans, even if you believe that Okouchi is lying about Lelouch being dead, you would have to ignore all of Lelouch’s characterization to believe that he purposely faked his own death without telling anyone other than Jeremiah since Suzaku didn’t know, Nunnaly didn’t know, Kallen didn’t know, and because of C.C’s tears she didn’t know.
For one, suzaku did know, why do you think he agreed to it. Other than suzaku and jeremiah who knew there was also sayako, cecile, nina, and Loyd who all knew. If you go to r2 ep 22, there is a few scenes with them at the palace. Cecile and Loyd are walking in the hallways
“and once we found out what suzaku and his friend were trying to accomplish…” -Cecile
“i guess we became parts for them, i guess”-loyd
They also know about geass as well, probably not nina though, as loyd said earlier in the episode,
“could you let me analyze that power just once?”
They even helped lelouch accomplish his plan by making the black knights believe that he had kept them captive and forced them to work for him. This is untrue, but it made more hate gather upon him just as he planned.
Nunnally i believe was to know the truth eventually, it just happened that she learned it there. After all, lelouch wasnt 100% sure he would survive, CC couldnt confirm it either, so he was gambling of the geass known as peoples wishes. (literal translation “the assistance known as god/code”) He did leave everything in perfect place too. He made sure that Kallens mom wouldnt get a 20 year sentence, she got let out, fullfiling Kallens wish, and made sure that nunnally was left with a high office position. He also left her suzaku, who would most likely reveal that he was zero and what lelouch had done. But still, it works out either way. He lived, and that is all there is to it.
Lelouch and CC was shipped along with Shirlulu, Kalulu, but in the end, only did CCxLelouch become real. It was the last 10 episodes that made a difference. He learned her wish, her reason to live, and matured to a point where he knew himself, and what he had to do. Zero Requiem was perfect because everyone was happy in the end.
Nunnally and suzaku
Kallen and her mom
Ougi and Villeta
Orange and anya orange farm
CC and Lelouch
World peace
“our existences arent allowed…”
So suzaku dies and becomes zero, and lelouch dies and becomes RR. The end. =]
January 7th, 2009 at 9:08 am
>>> Nunnally i believe was to know the truth eventually, it just happened that she learned it there. After all, lelouch wasnt 100% sure he would survive, CC couldnt confirm it either, so he was gambling of the geass known as peoples wishes. (literal translation “the assistance known as god/code”) He did leave everything in perfect place too.
- She did got a chance to see the truth that is true, but if she would not to know the truth, it would surly be very hard for her to live in that new world. Brother who was a monster, who created a monster that eventually killed her brother. It is a saying that Hate and Love goes hand in hand, so she would be torn apart between hatred and love for her brother and hatred and “gratefulness” for Zero/Suzaku.
>>> After all, lelouch wasnt 100% sure he would survive, CC couldnt confirm it either, so he was gambling of the geass known as peoples wishes
- I think you’ve got this one a bit wrong, some where in anime it was mentioned that she can sense this kind of things. So if Lelouch would gain Code, she would have been the first one to know that.
As for gambling on wishes:
People wish for tomorrow, a happier tomorrow and that what he is gambling on. That peoples desire for happiness and a brighter future will stop the war and conflict if he is to create a window for that. But since he is gambling on that, he is uncertain if this will be the true outcome of his actions.
>>> He did leave everything in perfect place too.
- Could not disagree more, but that simply because I love to see some more destruction and battles, more mecha and more geass. But that also because of my previous statement, he created an opportunity for the world to come out of the chain of hatred by braking it. The rest he gambled on humans wish to see a better tomorrow.
January 7th, 2009 at 9:52 am
Hey guys, I have a helpful link okay: http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/factsopinions.html
January 7th, 2009 at 9:57 am
>>CC did not want to be immortal, yet she still has the code
…I said what PEOPLE want, not what CC in specific wanted.
>>For one, you cannot poke out your mouth. And blood does indeed flow downwards. Remember? theres this thing called gravity that does that. She couldve had a head wound which bled and flowed downwards.
Why don’t you try looking at the scene I am talking about?
>>Now that does not make sense. Its true people did want to be immortal, but that was only some people. Not everyone wants to be immortal. For instance, if i had a code, immortal would be the last thing i want. Do you really think i would like to see everyone around me disappear? Geass would be more like you last statement, a power you think you want. Geass gives the user power to achieve their wish, however it is also their undoing. It only brings them temporary happiness. For instance CC geass gave her the power to make everyone love her, that was something she thought she wanted, however there was too much love for her and she couldnt tell what was real or not. So in the end, she was isolated by it. You make no sense….
I never said CC in specific. I said a Code represents what people think they want. You asked me what Codes and Geass are and I tell you, and now you’re arguing about it due to words you’re inserting while reading what I’m writing?
>>A bunch of useless words that do nothing but prove you’re a rabid Lelouch x CC fanboy who thinks of nothing else.
>>Wtf kind of answer is that? Prove that it means her time with lelouch beginning and ending.
The fact it’s completed when it was not finished when she was making it = Proof.
>>The image comes straight from suzaku’s mind hurrr…thats why CC couldnt see the image…hurr…thats why its unique to every induvidual hurrr…Its only a shocking image to them. If it was connected to the world of C, why didnt the image show a whole bunch of people being chopped up or killed? after all, suzaku despised the killing innocent people. But no, it showed his father, whom he had killed.
No, look at the actual scene when Suzaku “sees” his dad. Are you saying that Suzaku also invisions himself as nude in his mind?
>>Umm, you are the one fabricating stuff. Oh, the crane definately belongs to CC because i saw her make one. The reason why its there is because lelouch is dead. I saw him stabbed with a sword. CC is happy that he is dead. She isnt alone, she has his memory. Blah blah blah, bullshit like that.
Yeah, just keep avoiding what I said in regards to you fabricating things.
>>This doesnt make sense. God is mankinds history, so mankinds history must be jupiter, and then jupiter is humans unconciouness….wtf? You contradict yourself more and more
Look, I’m sorry the dialogue of R2 21 goes over your head, but human history = Jupiter = World of C = human unconscious.
January 7th, 2009 at 10:03 am
orite, add an = God to that list too.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Miasmacloud, that link was so epic.
I didn’t live until I clicked it. You changed me.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
>> I think you’ve got this one a bit wrong, some where in anime it was mentioned that she can sense this kind of things. So if Lelouch would gain Code, she would have been the first one to know that.
Zing, i actually think i got this one right. She could tell that suzaku saw her, that lelouch saw her, she can tell anything connected to geass, she said so herself. But what about the code, i dont think so. IN r2 ep 15, she was talking to VV and then she was like, whao…youre not healing, you look like shit, did charles take your code? And he was like, i accept this fate…uh huh…she cant tell.
>>The fact it’s completed when it was not finished when she was making it = Proof.
Yet you are still to prove that she even made it. yeah, i saw her start a pink one, but, that does not mean she finished it. That pink crane was seen numerous times througout r2. What, she finished it when lelouch lost his memory? Bs
I can counter your statement just the same. Since cranes represent nunally, and nunnally was lelouchs most important possesion, then it is a memior of her. It is her crane, the same one she is seen with, same with lelouch throughout the anime. Proof
>>Look, I’m sorry the dialogue of R2 21 goes over your head, but human history = Jupiter = World of C = human unconscious.
Charles did not point up and go, jupiter is god did he? If he did, i mustve missed it. Just listen to yourself, do you actually make any sense here, jupiter is mankinds history and is also god and is also the human unconscious all together. So that means the worlds so called creator is like a couple hundred million lightyears away from us. Woo, i hope i can meet god now.
>>Umm, you are the one fabricating stuff. Oh, the crane definately belongs to CC because i saw her make one. The reason why its there is because lelouch is dead. I saw him stabbed with a sword. CC is happy that he is dead. She isnt alone, she has his memory. Blah blah blah, bullshit like that.
>>Yeah, just keep avoiding what I said in regards to you fabricating things.
You should go watch binky’s facts and opinion video because you seriously need to learn the difference.
Yes, at least when im wrong i admit it. However, you just keep attacking regardless. The translation was off, i swore i saw it somewhere, yet the one i find, STILL means the same thing. If used in context that is. However regarless of which definition you used, it still plays out in my favor. Lelouch IS alive.
And if you didnt read above, you got that episode wrong, when charles told scheizel to challenge him, it was ep 18 not 17.
Yeah, just keep avoiding what i said in regards to you fabricating things.
Here i want you to answer an honest question without avoiding the actual question.
Do you really think CC would be as happy as she was in the end if lelouch truely died???? SHe loved him after all. Choosing him over her death wish. He became her reason to live, to fight on. If it is truly as you say, the crane was a memior of lelouch, wouldnt that contradict her own statements? In the world of C, they learned that people want tommorow, doesnt that include her as well? Living her life, with the memory of lelouch would be equivilant to living in the past. That would kill the entire theme of the show. Then she said, “geass the power of kings brings one solitude, but i guess thats a little wrong, nah lelouch?” Just to point out the obvious, this line contradicts her line “geass brings one solitude” that she says multiple times in the anime. Yet this time it didnt…i wonder why…maybe because it brought them together?? If he died, he wouldve been another one to disappear in CC’s forever and eternal life.
So can you see contradictions within your own statements? or do i have to bluntly point them out to you?
January 7th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
We all know that Miasmacloud is going to respond by saying “Shipping is irrelevant” and btw I was laughing my ass off when you mentioned Binky’s fact and opinion lesson XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
January 7th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Miasmacloud, go dig your own grave.
You’ve lost your touch.
You cant even troll properly any more.
All you do is spam a lot of bullshit.
Your writing stinks.
It is time for your retirement, you’ve earned it.
Rest in peace little troll.
January 8th, 2009 at 9:15 am
Guys, srsly: your interpretation =/= facts.
A lot of your arguments are interpretations of your own that easily can work the other way around, even if they sound logical, and much more considering how much code geass sucks.
@koda:
>”http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/factsopinions.html”
this had me laughing my ass off
January 8th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Yes, weve done it, weve gotten him to say that we sound more logical than him being dead. *high five everyone*
or maybe sunsetterxxx is a girl? idk, haha
Ah man, our theories dont work the other way around. It is fact derived straight from the source. Its pretty obvious that CC loves lelouch, and lelouch later returns her feelings. That, her last line would not make sense if he was dead, that the zero requiem wouldve been half complete, and that Lelouch and CC wouldnt have a tommorow. But if you read back, i put a list of what he accomplished, and its a nice list too.
I wonder when miasmacloud will write back =/ Im looking forward to her answer to my last statement…maybe shell even ignore it..*sigh*…cant help those who cannot be helped
January 8th, 2009 at 11:29 am
I didn’t say that your INTERPRETATIONS sound more logical than Lelouch dead arguments. Read again, I just said that they sound reasonable. However, so do the opposites in most of the occasions since most of the are simple interpretations so there are lots of possible arguments. I still think Lelouch is dead is the rational conclusion, even if this show’s rather irrational.
Most of the time you guys go: “Lelouch and C.C. love each other and they made a promise or w/e so there’s no f*cking way Lelouch died ’cause that would be unresolved and would leave things in the air”, amirite? But you know what? Even if Lelouch dying horribly sucks for C.C. (Actually, I really liked C.C. so, yeah D:), positive outcome is not a MUST HAPPEN, neither in narrative fiction nor the real world. Shit happens.
It’s funny that you guys try to predict a fictitious character like you know him/her like the back of your hand and pretend to tell what will happen to C.C. or how would she react to Lelouch’s loss.
But anyway, what if she turns into a lone ice queen craving for love or death again? Or, what if she goes on with her life and ep. 25 R2 marked the end of Lelouch chapter in C.C. eternal life? What difference does it make that one possibility sucks or the other one rocks in the outcome of an event?
Why Lelouch death sucking for C.C. is a valid argument to prove Lelouch survived? Things just happen even if it’s not of our sake.
So, “I think Lelouch and C.C. loved each other and there’s no way C.C. would be smiling at the end ’cause his loss would be like, the worst thing that could ever happen to her and it’s too sad to accept that outcome” =/= Lelouch is likely alive.
January 8th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Zongetsu I am just going to say this
Opinion: C.C Loved Lelouch
Fact: Lelouch didn’t love C.C as a girlfriend
The guide has blatantly stated that Lelouch never thought of C.C as a lover who are a fucking moron who has point blankly tainted the side your on with your stupidity, at least.
It’s clear that you don’t agree with either Okouchi and Sunrise, but since Okouchi made the series I am going with him.
January 8th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Also I will point out that Taniguchi and Okouchi want people to decide if Code Geass had a happy or a sad ending depending on how you look at Lelouch’s death
Not
Lelouch lives, and Kallen has sex with her mom ending you came up with
or the
Japan’s economy collapses causing a mad max world that I came up with
Your refusal to believe anything Okouchi or Taniguchi has said is amazing, your refusal to admit that someone else may be right is hilarious, but your refusal to admit that your opinion is in fact an opinion is just unreal, its what a baby does.
January 8th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Oh and in case your wondering its stated that not only does Lelouch not love C.C as a lover but that Kallen’s feelings for Lelouch was mutual, which I believe comes from Taniguchi.
January 8th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Oh and in case your wondering I don’t ship Kalulu and could care less about the revaltation
I ship Leloucest whidh is the belief that Lelouch will have sex with any person as long as its a family member
Nunnaly, Euphemia, Schneizel, Clovis, Marriane, Charles, all of them at once. The last episode proves it with how Lelouch has put Nunnaly in a sexy bondage outfit, and has whipped Schneizel,
January 8th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Oh and I was joking about that last post
January 8th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
To clarify the joking was the Leloucest crap, I never actually shipped any couple simply because their wasn’t much to ship, I hated Lelouch, and the rest of the couples where boring.
January 8th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
@Charred Knight
Of course the guidebook wouldn’t stick with a certain pairing because Okouchi never gave a cannon pairing, that part is for us to decide. However, Sunrise did give multiple hints that they were LuluxC.C. supporters and their entire guidebook contradicts everything they did in the final episode so therefore they are changing the facts of the anime.
I thought it was clear that Lelouch loves C.C., I honestly don’t get why some people don’t really think so just because a lame guidebook says so? The reason why the guidebook/Okouchi’s words can’t be considered “facts” is because the entire R2 season was filled with ambiguity and double meanings. Can words undo the ambiguity of the anime? The answer is NO.
If they wanted to make their points clear, they could have done a much better job in expressing it in the anime. If Lulu didn’t love C.C., why didn’t they make it completely clear in the anime? And why did they make Lulu’s death ambiguous in the final episode? The fact is that the final episode would have been clear if they didn’t throw those random scenes toward the end. So with that said do you honestly think there can be a correct answer to an anime that wasn’t clear? The answer is no.
Second of all, Sunrise never had a problem with making the point clear in the anime because they created all the Gundam series which was never as ambiguous as Code Geass R2. The fact is that there was a huge confusion about the Code Geass R2 ending and they can’t just go back and say
“That’s how the ending was supposed to be percieved” All they are doing at this point is contradicting their production of the final episode and trying to go along with Okouchi said.
Lastly, if Sunrise didn’t want the viewers to decide who Lulu loved, what was the whole point of the LuluxC.C. moments, LuluxKallen moments, and LuluxShirley moments? The whole thing would have been a waste of time if Lulu didn’t love any of them. It goes back to my previous question: If Lulu didn’t love C.C., why wasn’t that clear in the anime? The fact is that majority of the fans considered that LuluxC.C. was a cannon couple (and the most popular one btw). The fact is that most people percieved the series the same way as far as the LuluxC.C. relationship and the Lulu alive thing.
All Sunrise can do is say that they made a mistake and tell how the series should be percieved. Their words alone can’t undo the ambiguity they created and the fact is that they can’t change the way the viewers percieved the series and the ending. Also, another fact is that there is nothing they can do to change the ending so everything stands as it is.
January 8th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
As geassdude said Binkys gay vid of facts & opinions do not apply 2 this debate b/c the so called official sources r going against their work in the anime & there is a term called ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS & the fact is that sunrise made the end so that the ppl could interpret whether or not lulu is alive & their words r contradicting their actions in the anime so therefore u cant consider their words as “facts” so easily. Even in Japan ppl wonder whether or not they should take okouchis/sunrises statements as a confirmation so there is tons of doubt about their “official statements”
January 8th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
I don’t think miasmacloud is trolling. Disagreement with the majority does not a troll make.
January 8th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
>>Charles did not point up and go, jupiter is god did he? If he did, i mustve missed it. Just listen to yourself, do you actually make any sense here, jupiter is mankinds history and is also god and is also the human unconscious all together. So that means the worlds so called creator is like a couple hundred million lightyears away from us. Woo, i hope i can meet god now.
Look, I’m sorry you missed out on how the Sword of Akasha was moving the Thought Elevator into Jupiter and then Marianne goes “LOOK GUYS, IT’S SLAYING GOD!”
Maybe if you re-watch the episode we can talk like adults.
January 8th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
If our statements are more reasonable…then why arent they more logical as well? Its pretty much the same thing after all.
@charred knight’
Opinion: Lelouch died
Fact: He lived
Yes, sunsetterxxx, why dont you just come to our side? You say it seems more reasonable, and you can see CC and lelouch as a couple. *sigh*…
As for Kallen having sex with her mom, she said in episode 9,
“by the time you come out, ill have changed it, into a world where you and I can live normally…”
This became her reason to fight. Her mother also got a 20 year sentence…but i wonder who removed it…? Lelouch perhaps?
So i just want to point out something that i didnt before. Dont you think that the reason why Suzaku became isolated is because of the geass lelouch gave him? I think this couldve been a foreshadow, and it fits right into the plot. Lelouch “granted” him geass, which was to “live on!”. Once suzaku became able to master it, he in terms “killed” the one who bestowed power on him. In doing so, he became immortal. (well not really but same point) Its really quite ironic. Now dont go on saying lelouch had a code and suzaku took it, for lelouch never really “granted” him it, he merely cast it upon him, but do to suzakus superior mind, he was able to master it. This could be somewhat “proof” that lelouch had a code, this foreshadow.
This is similar to suzakus title, Knight of ZERO. For one, it means that he is a knight with a better status than that of Knight of ONE. And two, he litterally is the Knight of ZERO, you know that masked dude? Lelouch was one sneaky guy when he decided to call himself Zero.
So i am going to ask you the same thing i asked miasmacloud
Do you really think CC would be as happy as she was in the end if lelouch truely died???? SHe loved him after all. Choosing him over her death wish. He became her reason to live, to fight on. If it is truly as you say, the crane was a memior of lelouch, wouldnt that contradict her own statements? In the world of C, they learned that people want tommorow, doesnt that include her as well? Living her life, with the memory of lelouch would be equivilant to living in the past. That would kill the entire theme of the show. Then she said, “geass the power of kings brings one solitude, but i guess thats a little wrong, nah lelouch?” Just to point out the obvious, this line contradicts her line “geass brings one solitude” that she says multiple times in the anime. Yet this time it didnt…i wonder why…maybe because it brought them together?? If he died, he wouldve been another one to disappear in CC’s forever and eternal life.
“all those who have loved me or hated me have all disappeared in time, the endless and forever time…” -CC (lelouch would disappear in time as well, but she was happy, wtf?)
January 8th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
@zongetsu
Stop distorting what I said or learn to read.