Toradora 23: questions

Ever since episode thirteen I’ve known that a relationship between Ami and Ryuuji would never happen. I’d like to ask some things, however, since this episode featured a lot more Ami than the previous seven episodes. Most of us recognize Ami having something between mere infatuation and romantic interest in Ryuuji, but did she really stay just so she could help Taiga? If so, was all of those teases of hers merely acts to force Taiga into acting?

To be seen as a demigod, though, is simply quite frustrating especially when one perceives his flaws and his humanity. I guess this is the tragedy of Ami: maybe she looked to Ryuuji as a romantic interest because he saw her beyond her facade; he saw that she was also human. This is all left up in the air, though, since that statement really obfuscated what I initially thought. If anyone could clear that up, I’d be grateful.

I hope the next episode clears up the statement of Minori regarding her happiness only created by herself. I mean, it’s a reason to reject Ryuuji, but it’s not a very good one. In a relationship, both involved people must strive to create happiness. It’s not just one-way. Even without reading the novel, I think there were a lot of things removed, because it didn’t make the episode flow as it should have.

I can’t even write much about the episode. 🙁

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21 Responses to “Toradora 23: questions”

  1. roan Says:

    The 1st semester ends in July and the 2nd one begins in September. This means that Ami saw something during summer vacation at the villa, involving Taiga, that made her change her mind. I noticed in episode 10 you had an image with the caption “I can only look back … and ponder why I could never get you”, but that was actually Ami looking at the reaction Taiga gave when Ryuuji was with Minori. The presentation may have been misleading but she was looking and responding precisely to that.

    The anime did make some ugly cuts, but the viewer should have noticed that Ami had purposefully started keeping herself at a distance from and giving advice to Ryuuji (and this is something that should have made people wonder why) and that Taiga’s social sphere did gradually began expanding thanks in part to being forced out into the spotlight during the cultural festival by Ami.

    As for Minori, you are horribly misunderstanding what she was saying. I have not seen the TrollGuys subs yet, but she’s telling Taiga to stop telling her what to do. She is NOT saying that happiness can only be created by herself and not from a relationship.

  2. Rankao Says:

    This episode was really good. However, I was really really disappointed by the lack in animation quality I have come to expect of Tora Dora

  3. erk Says:

    wow Rankao. the animation in this episode was the best in awhile. did you notice the scene where minori lays her chocolates on the table and leaves creases in the cellophane? and then right after that she grabs taiga and sticks her thumb so hard into her wrist that it leaves stretch marks in the skin. those were details that did have to be put in. those scenes would have worked just find without the extra animation muscle. in the scene following this where they go into action mode the style changes. this is the same style they have used for every action scene. its okay to not like a certain illustration style, but to say it lacked in quality just doesn’t make sense.

    why do you think the quality was poor?

  4. Rankao Says:

    I actually understand and accept the action scene changes. But there were several sections where character proportions were off. Especially the scene before the OP. The problem is had was that it would literally change between scene to scene. Its like they cut quality on the other scenes so they could focus on the main scenes. Maybe I just need to rewatch it, I did watch it at 3am and having just finishing a school project.

  5. Joe Jacobs Says:

    To answer your question, I really think that Ami truly cares for Ryuuji. The key was during the chocolate sequence. First, notice Ami’s reaction around Ryuuji. She was embarrassed. Ryuuji chased after Ami (chasing was a recurring theme in this episode) and told her that he didn’t think she should leave, because everyone adores her. She simply responded, “Everyone?” and then followed that up with, “Actually, I’d be happy even if it wasn’t everyone.” Ami truly likes Ryuuji and she continues to stand by waiting. Perhaps her methods are a little unorthodox, but she’s right; Ryuuji really doesn’t get it.

    As far as Minorin’s mini monologue, she was simply trying to get Taiga to realize something. She knew why Taiga was doing what she was doing. When she realized that Ryuuji was trying to hide it, she had a valid point: why pretend that you don’t care when you do? She cornered Taiga and says, “I don’t think you’re the kind of person to blame others for your inability to go after what you want!” Taiga says, “I just want you to be happy.” And then we see Minori’s true colors. She states that she her happiness can only be made by her own hands. In other words, she won’t fall into Ryuuji’s arms just because Taiga thinks thats the way thing should go. Her happiness depends only upon her.

    I personally think that Ami is proving to be the strongest. When she helped block the door, she was witnessing something that had to be painful, but she knew it was what needed to happen. At this point, I really don’t see the series ending any other way but Taiga x Ryuuji. I’m cheering for Ami, but we’ll see.

  6. HERP Says:

    The show is called Toradora for a reason geniuses

  7. Ryan A Says:

    The issue with Ami is, she seems to be waiting for the moment when Ryuuji is his weakest… which may be the only time she could ever attempt to comfort him (or show her feelings or that she cares, w/e). Unfortunately, being the waiter is often painful and slightly sad… and in the end may never come to fruition. I think many viewers could learn life lessons from what Ami has done wrong by concealing herself… for some reason it reminds me of that character in Love Actually who keeps to himself with a hint of despise towards the girl he loves, who is his best friend’s newly wed (though I think that relation evened out nicely… since it’s quite alright to “not get the one you love”).

    I wish we had more inner dialog on Minori’s part. Friends starting up relations in a close-knit group is always tough, there will be resistance, but it’s part of life.

  8. TJ Says:

    Looks like both Minori and Ami are in get-Taiga-and-Ryuji-together mode, which I find disappointing since I wanted to see some last-minute tearful confessions from these two. They’ll get rejected of course but it makes for a good show right?

  9. Bocom Says:

    The show ending in any way other than Taiga and Ryuuji would be kinda weird, sínce as HERP says, it’s called Toradora! for a reason. 😛

    (Tora = tiger, dora = dragon)

  10. Joe Says:

    I don’t know if Ami really likes Ryuuji since in every scene that Ami syas something it can be understood i two way.For examle “actually i’d be happy if it wasn’t everyone ”
    One way to look at things is that she really likes likes Ryuuji.That might be true to some extent since he managed to see her true self and showed he cares about her(not as a lover but as a friend) so she might have develpoed smoe feelings for him.Yet she harbours them and just waits(if she indeed loves him)
    The other way things could be interpreted is that Ami finally found someone who likes her the way she is.She finally found friends.When Ami first came to the school she put on a mask so that everyone would like her.The fact that she refused to model for the school and the statements she made really add up to a rather simple thing – She now only cares for her friends.She doesn’t care if it’s everyone because for the first time she found a place to be herself and be appreciated for that.
    Well if it’s the first case all the things that are happaning how will be really painful for her.IMO she just wants her friend to be happy and not hurt each other by hiding their true feelings.She just says it a more mature way so they can’t understand her clearly in Ryuuji’s case,Minori understood what Ami was saying to e certain extent.

  11. Hachi Says:

    i like Ami and Ryuugi better than with Taiga and Minorin even though i know they really won’t end up together. Ami is so mature and how she could see things cleary just by observing them unlike those idiots. haha

  12. luckyhuh Says:

    lol Ami is an epic troll and it’s even more clearly when you read vol 9 and 10 of the novels, sometimes people tend to be blind by their shipping glasses and they over analyze stuff at some parts, i was the same before i read the last two volumes i am still lol mode good one!!! Mrs Yuyuko Takemiya good one , minori has a deeper reason than what was let to now in this ep hopefully the anime will be able to show this to clear the confusion.

  13. Michael Says:

    roan:

    As I said in the PM, that’s what I got from the data that I possess. I know you’re a lot more knowledgeable, having read the novels and all, but I don’t have any plans to extrapolate and how I understood it was like that.

    Rankao:

    I thought it was all right, but I thought it was quite weak. I even thought the drama was somewhat forced near the end. But of course, a weak Toradora episode doesn’t mean much.

    I think they sacrificed the art for the sake of a fluid animation. I also didn’t find the episode visually appealing for the most part.

    Joe Jacobs:

    I think so too. I don’t think she was there all along for the sake of Taiga; she herself has had a stake in their matters of friendship.

    I mean, yeah, I get that, but don’t you think it’s flawed reasoning from Minori? You can’t grab your own happiness when you’re in a relationship? Happiness doesn’t depend upon her in one? I can’t seem to understand the myopic vision, especially when she’s also quite perceptive.

    I’m also cheering for Ami, but I can appreciate the flow of the series (Taiga x Ryuuji end).

    HERP:

    I know.

    Ryan A:

    I seem to see it like this, too. I guess that’s unrequited love for you.

    Joe:

    I seem to see it in both perspectives: she has found her friends, so she doesn’t need it to be everyone, but she also wants among those few for Ryuuji to recognize her feelings. It’s painful, but that’s what Toradora revolves in: sacrifices, and resolute ones at that. Maybe this is what makes Toradora great.

    Hachi:

    haha

    luckyhuh:

    As I’ve said before somewhere I don’t want the novels to colour my conclusion and impressions on the anime. I want them to be standalone, and while I could barely wait that’s only two weeks from now, anyway.

  14. defectivequeen Says:

    I didn’t think it was a weak episode at all. The final scene was really powerful.
    Minori, as someone else said, is a really indipendent person, so she doesn’t want Taiga to meddle into the relationship she has with Ryujii. I know from the novels that she has other motives, but really I think that Minori’s affection for Ryuji isn’t all that strong as it seems. This is the first time she likes a person, true, but seriously I don’t think that what she feels for him is the reason to stop her from obtaining what she wants (conversation with Ami last episode).
    Regarding Ami, I understood she likes both Taiga and Ryujii, because with them she can be herself. But there’s also something that bothers her: she’s happy to have her friends all around her, but then she realizes that Taiga and Ryujii depend and need each other and she feels like an outsider (that last glance when Ryujii runs off to Taiga).
    I think the whole Ami’s issue is that everyone considers her a mature and indipendent person, while she just wants to have true friends that care about her. It doesn’t have to be everyone, but even a part of them would make her happy.

    (Sorry for my english…I hope that what I said was understandable enough.)

  15. Michael Says:

    The English was good enough. Do note, however, that it’s spelled as ‘independent.’ Thanks for the comments.

    See, that’s the bad thing about it: it’s simply not in-character when one doesn’t read the novels. Although someone rectified that (roan noted it was a bad mistranslation), it may be interpreted otherwise, especially with people like me who lack the knowledge of novel-readers. I guess that’s what she meant when she said ‘she’s decided.’ Thanks roan and defectivequeen for clearing that up. It wasn’t clear within the episode at all, however … the dynamic of what she could see against what she couldn’t was lost to me especially with that statement – I simply thought it was unreasonable.

    I admire Ami, and I admire her a lot. While her actions are very, very nuanced, she truly cares for both of them. 🙂

  16. roan Says:

    I’m looking around at these subs a little more and now I see how you got the wrong idea.
    In addition to that PM I sent you, the part that says:
    “My happiness doesn’t depend on anyone but me!” should be something closer in line to
    “I won’t let anyone other than me determine what my happiness is!” or something like that.

  17. roan Says:

    Determine/judge/decide, well something that fits the mood better.

  18. defectivequeen Says:

    Thanks for the corrections! I’m glad that my perspective helped you to understand the episode better.
    In the beginning I didn’t like Ami. I didn’t like her as love interest for Ryujii, because I always thought he and Taiga pair up perfectly. But I have to say that episode after episode, I changed my previous opinion on her. She’s truly a good character, too good for that wimp Ryujii (even if I adore him, he really needs to become a man and tell Taiga what he feels), so I hope in the future there will be some side stories with her as main character! ^_^

  19. Joe Jacobs Says:

    Michael:

    Yeah, I was going to write about that being Minori’s weakness, but you figured it out. I guess what she is trying to say is that she doesn’t want to be in a relationship with Ryuuji if it means that Taiga has to “set it up” for her. While I see this as a flaw, its also quite brilliant. Ryuuji had feelings for Minori and probably still does. That said, he obviously cares for Taiga, he just needs to figure out if its more than friendship.

    My guess is that this next episode will have all three girls revealing their feelings in their own way. Taiga obviously has to face it and if Minori chases after her, they will have to talk, meaning Minori will have to fess up. Ami I’m a little less sure on, but they better give her some screen time!

  20. leinad Says:

    I agree with rankao. in this episode the first scenes were terrible. i was disappointed in some points and i wonder why did this happen.

  21. korosora Says:

    Let’s go on a crusade to find all the Ami end doujins.
    I must has them.

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